My Wagon Project Thread (Again...)

GasTT wrote:

Cadet57 wrote:

sdstick wrote:

Can you specify EXACTLY what your going for in a motor?
HP?...torque?...is it going to run with your existing drivetrain?..etc..etc...

I'd recommend buying a running motor (whatever configuration your going with) & installing it
You WILL spend ALOT of unrecoverable $ building one.
Also, unless your planning on unusual usage of the wagon, you'll never realize a built motors potential.
Obviously my 0.02 & totally ignore this if your fully committed to your plan.
Really though.....be penny wise not dollar foolish

I'm going with a 350 from my era since it'll bolt to my drivetrain. Probably keep it computer controlled since all the wiring is there. It's probably just going to be a stocker minus an idea i've been toying with to put in some Vortec heads if I can find some cheap. And maybe a different cam. But thats it. But this all happened within the past 3 days so nothing is even close to set in stone.

How many miles on your motor? If all you're doing is heads/cam there's really no need to take your perfectly good motor out and replace it with the same thing. Heads/cam can be done in a day with the motor still in the car.

142k. Not sure if its because of the 2:93's but I feel like it's not as peppy as it used to be. And it really bogged down going up hills towing my quad. And that should have been a nothing job for that car.

Food for thought, your wagon's 350 is a roller cam engine. The truck engines of that area are tappet cams that do not last as long. I believe some have discovered that some of the blocks had provisions for using a roller cam in them, but most did not. Why GM did this, I do not know. I've even heard of a couple trucks turning out to have roller cams in them like the car TBIs did. I don't know why they didn't just make them all roller cams.

I think the Vortec engines changed that, and the heads are much better, but many of those engines may have to be really gone through or looked at because of being run with bad intake gaskets at some point...

I realize it's odd to hear from me, being chief parts-thrower/lazy procrastinator/naive diagnosis techinican, but have you done things like a compression test and other stuff to find out the general condition of your current engine?

Matt Trakker wrote:

Food for thought, your wagon's 350 is a roller cam engine. The truck engines of that area are tappet cams that do not last as long. I believe some have discovered that some of the blocks had provisions for using a roller cam in them, but most did not. Why GM did this, I do not know. I've even heard of a couple trucks turning out to have roller cams in them like the car TBIs did. I don't know why they didn't just make them all roller cams.

I think the Vortec engines changed that, and the heads are much better, but many of those engines may have to be really gone through or looked at because of being run with bad intake gaskets at some point...

Hmmm. Thanks for that. Maybe I will just go with new/refub Vortec heads, new cam, flash, etc on my old motor.

Haha, damn, I edited the thread there.

But yea, definitely don't rule out using your current engine. A few years ago with the 74 Impala, I was all about putting a different used 350 in it a few years from now, but these days I see all the good things about LS swaps and it makes me want to do that. So that could be an option too? I would try to stick to a good overall value, whatever it winds up being, maybe your current engine is fine and just has some timing issue or whatever?

Matt Trakker wrote:

Haha, damn, I edited the thread there.

But yea, definitely don't rule out using your current engine. A few years ago with the 74 Impala, I was all about putting a different used 350 in it a few years from now, but these days I see all the good things about LS swaps and it makes me want to do that. So that could be an option too? I would try to stick to a good overall value, whatever it winds up being, maybe your current engine is fine and just has some timing issue or whatever?

I know, at least right now, LS is out of my budget. Maybe in a few years if I still have the wagon It'll be a thought. But for now, no. Honestly, I'm not sure what it could be. I feel like its been getting tired the past year or so. But who knows. Maybe all it needs is a top end refresh. It still runs "good" just not as "good" as it used to.

Pricing it out, just doing heads/intake/cam/chip flash/headers is going to be much cheaper than a full rebuild. Plus, like Tim said, all that can be done with the engine still in the car.

After coming to my senses and listening to the voices of logic from my father, and Steve . I decided just to do the top end of the motor, going to just do a valve job on my stock heads, new cam and seals all around. Figure that will still deliver the sort of small bump i'd like, keep it in my budget and not sideline the car all summer. Then, maybe a couple years down the line I can go LS or build something really nice.

Nothing really new to report mod wise. Just maintenance for now, new front shocks, U joint and some Rust Shield on the floors and frame. Already getting some surface rust on the new quarters

There's nothing wrong with a freshened up top end. I'm heading that way myself this summer. At least buy the parts and I'll drive it unlike last summer. Sometimes listening to the endless budget Internet banter can get the best of you. It's YOUR car and no one else's. be happy with it.

But seriously....RUST?????

Didn't you JUST get this thing completely painted???

MASShole9C1 wrote:

But seriously....RUST?????

Didn't you JUST get this thing completely painted???

Yeah. Thankfully its on the bottom of the spare wheel. Quick buzz with the wheel and i'll be good. Its what happens when you drive in rain/snow/salt for 8 hours from VA to CT

Good point. I don't do that with my caprice

MASShole9C1 wrote:

Good point. I don't do that with my caprice

It certainly wasn't by choice.

Just need to pick up some more hardener for the Rust Shield so I can get that project started.

Just buy a nice 9C1 for a beater like everyone else does

But, with any luck you'll want to build that too

MASShole9C1 wrote:

Just buy a nice 9C1 for a beater like everyone else does

But, with any luck you'll want to build that too

Now you're talking!

I'd really need a Setina then.

I was kidding. At the rate people have trashed 9C1 Caprices, they're going to get rare and even harder to find than now.

Got an interesting visitor today. Guy who I stored my wagon with has a 1990 350 truck motor with everything- trans, ecu, tb, harness. He's offering it to me for $300 with the low payment plan of "pay me whenever" I think I might snag it. It only has 88k, runs great, and everything I need for the swap is there.

Sooooooooo your swapping an entire engine to gain 30hp????
Idk if I'd spend $300 and all that time for such a small gain. My $.02.
Good deal for a 350 though.

Ironfistdog wrote:

Sooooooooo your swapping an entire engine to gain 30hp????
Idk if I'd spend $300 and all that time for such a small gain. My $.02.
Good deal for a 350 though.

Anyways. Is it "only" 30 hp, yes. But I'm also looking at it as a better base to build out over time while not sidelining the car while the motor is out, not to mention the fact that its got about 50k less than my engine. I never wanted big power from this car, just something with a bit more pickup, And pricing out getting the heads done, cam, ecu flash, etc is going to run me way more than $300. Plus, just to make things easier we were going to pull the motor to do the work anyways (plus paint and degreasing is easier out of the car...)

Cadet57 wrote:

Ironfistdog wrote:

Sooooooooo your swapping an entire engine to gain 30hp????
Idk if I'd spend $300 and all that time for such a small gain. My $.02.
Good deal for a 350 though.

Idk if id spend $300 for only 30HP
BUT $300 is a good deal for a 350 engine in general and/or for someone who has a 305, a broken 350, or no engine at all

50k less is definitely a plus. Definitely a good thing to have a spare engine/block to work with while driving the car daily.

Ironfistdog wrote:

BUT $300 is a good deal for a 350 engine in general and/or for someone who has a 305, a broken 350, or no engine at all

Gotcha

Ironfistdog wrote:

50k less is definitely a plus. Definitely a good thing to have a spare engine/block to work with while driving the car daily.

Exactly. And like you said it's "only" 30hp, but its a start.

Plus a spare trans and everything is nice.

Shoulda just bought a 94-96 wagon

MASShole9C1 wrote:

Shoulda just bought a 94-96 wagon

Couldn't find one at the time.

I'm just playing around. I like your wagon from where it was to where it is now. The best decision was to delete the wood and trim.

Finally went and looked at that motor. It was in a '90 1500 pickup. But, it was actually swapped in '96 with a Goodwrench crate so it might actually be a hydraulic cam, instead of the original roller cam. I won't know til I can see the casting numbers. Either way I have everything for the swap, trans, ecu, harness and TB. For now I'm just going to do new gaskets (Intake, etc) a pair of headers and some fresh paint and call it a day. Once I get some more money aside do a Vortec head/intake swap, new cam and other goodies like I planned. But for now this will be a nice start. Only had 95k when they scrapped the truck.

Steve suggested Flotech Afterburners. What ones should I get for my car? jegs and summit only list ones for older SB's and TBI pickups. Also going to go with the Percy's gaskets Crovo mentioned.

The afterburners fit in our B-Bodys nicely
Our LT heads are D port
I've no idea what ports are on that motor
If your no going heads cam....maybe save the $ & use the stock exhaust manifolds?
At least until you know more about what you have?
Just an idea

Check the HEADER sticky in the mods/performance section

Go for the summit 9001 headers.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g9001

GasTT wrote:

Go for the summit 9001 headers.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g9001

Noob question Tim, Summit lists them as fitting upto 89. I'm guessing they'll fit my car since they're both TBI?

Also, what do I do about the O2 sensor?

They will fit. You get an o2 bung welded in the collector.

Yup. What Tim said.

I'd definitely get headers. But like Steve said, maybe wait. It all depends on what your priorities are. I mean, stock manifolds are good now, but once you start beefing up the guts on the engine, you'll have to worry about the intake, which sounds like you've got that down. Then headers for less restruction pushing the exhaust out.

Remember, think about a coating too. There's a great thread on the big forum about that. Since we live in New England, a wrap migh not be the BEST idea also considering you dd the wagon.

At the end of the day, no matter when you buy/install headers, there's no bad time IMO. Its a great performance mod for any power level. Hell, I'd toss a set on the 305 in the ss.

*Bump*

Nothing super big to talk about. Mostly just been driving and enjoying my whale.  

1993Roady-Man (Jarrod) is down from NY on business and he's helping me fix that bumper damage some asshole left me a couple months ago.

Motor is coming home next week. And I'm still looking for some time on a lift to lay down some Rust Shield and fix my wheel well. But other than that nothing new to report. Pics when something happens.  

Special delivery!  



Manifolds are off, wiring harness removed. Going to strip off the accessories tonight/tomorrow and begin degreasing and cleaning.

Sweet!

I like the shopping cart half being utilized there, that's actually a great idea and those are easily sto- I mean...uh...reappropriated.

Motor is plugging along little by little. Trans is seperated, its a 4L80E, so if anyone knows someone looking....  

Pulled the heads no issues there so for now I'm just going to run them as is.

Also, replaced my rotted out old rear bumper yesterday with a squeaky clean SC one. Three coats of Rust Shield outta do the trick.  

Before:




After:

Now THAT'S a before & after pic...great job

That's funny how it rotted on that one side...that's what my Tahoe's bumper did. Prob. from the salt water puddles on that side of the car near the gutter when driving...

So much for my motor project.     

Pulled the PS head (DS was pulled earlier) and found #8 looking like this.



Think my LS or SBC decision has now been made.

The upside, I'm supposedly getting all my money back this week.

5.3L. Do it.

What size are the tires on your 454SS wheels?

MalibuSSwagon wrote:

5.3L. Do it.

What size are the tires on your 454SS wheels?

Unless you plan to fund the 5.3, thats a LONG ways away. Rather play with the TBI for now.

Tires are 235/70 on 15x8 454SS rims.

I would like a 5.3 for the OCC but the 305 runs so well. So no excuse to swap it out.

I like the tire size, looks good on there. I have some nice wheels in storage for the wagon

I would just run the TBI for now if it runs good and save yah money kehd! I think the 5.3 would not cost much more from start to finish than you'd have wound up putting into swapping an engine into the Caprice, unless it was an absolute bolt in swap? I'm obviously not an authority on said subject though and would be more suited to play with Duplos than tell someone what they should do with their cah...

Matt Trakker wrote:

I would just run the TBI for now if it runs good and save yah money kehd!  I think the 5.3 would not cost much more from start to finish than you'd have wound up putting into swapping an engine into the Caprice, unless it was an absolute bolt in swap?  I'm obviously not an authority on said subject though and would be more suited to play with Duplos than tell someone what they should do with their cah...

Thats the thing. Dollar for HP, a 5.3 is pretty pissah. BUT, getting one into my car isn't quite a 100% direct swap. Brandon and I talked about it before I got my hours cut at work and I was ready to have him build me one, but it wasn't quite a bolt in and go-close, but not quite there. Unlike throwing heads and a cam into the TBI. And plus, as i've said a couple times, while an LS would be wicked sweet, I just don't think I need THAT much motor, I think I'd be more than pleased with said cam and heads and a fresh coat of SBC Orange.   

*bump*

Haven't done much, unemployment is a bitch, but I figured I'd share where I'm at now. Motor is going to come out in a couple weeks so I can fix my leaking timing cover/ oil pan. Plus it'll give me a chance to install my new wheel wells, paint the motor, and install the headers. Also on deck is the steelies with box 9C1 dog dishes. Motor is on the back burner. I'm still debating what to do. Dave's TBI<LS swap has me thinking about it again, but I kinda just want to throw a cam and heads in my car and call it a day.

And it wouldn't be a build thread without pictures   

Finally patched my Swiss Cheese wheel house. No more wet floors!


Steelies with dog dishes


And the piece de resistance. Coated long boobs   

Nice Justin! I like the wheels, don't take this as me stealing your idea, but I'm hunting down a set of 15x7 steelies for the Olds, going to color match them to the blues and get some Olds caps.

Justin, what is that fiberglass looking patch stuff you used there? Is that what "Tiger Hair" is or is that something different?

Looks like bondo glass long hair resin over metal mesh screen.

Yeah thats "tiger hair" also known as Bondo-Hair. Stuff works great. Can sand and topcoat with normal bondo/metal/etc or just paint over. Which is what I'm going to do with some Rust Shield. No one is going to be looking at the wheel wells so I'm not concerned about looks.

I need to use something like that for my old truck, I told my dad I'd cut out and patch up some rot that's on the lower quarters like every Blazer/Yukon/2dr Tahoe seems to get these days.

Matt Trakker wrote:

I need to use something like that for my old truck, I told my dad I'd cut out and patch up some rot that's on the lower quarters like every Blazer/Yukon/2dr Tahoe seems to get these days.  

It works pissah. You need a nice mesh backing, either metal or plastic. I also use a bit more hardener than you would with regular bondo but otherwise, if you can throw bondo, you can put down hair.

Lookin good kehd! The wheels and caps are bitchin'!

I love the wheel and cap choice.  

Annnnnd mounted.