| Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong... | |
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+11Tomz9C1 Matt Trakker laidlow91 mikiehews silverfox103 Ironfistdog GasTT sdstick 1984twodoor 95brmw Cadet57 15 posters |
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Cadet57
Posts : 4481 Join date : 2010-03-14 Age : 36 Location : Chicopee, MA
| Subject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong... Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:06 pm | |
| I think this is what you call a bad ground. Going to go pick up some new crimp ring thingys tomorrow.... | |
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silverfox103
Posts : 1540 Join date : 2009-01-25 Age : 29 Location : Littleton, NH & St. Simons Island, GA
| Subject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong... Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:09 pm | |
| - sdstick wrote:
I'm unfamiliar with your setup but on LT1's the ground cluster right there always hides busted ground wires.
I think Justin may be buying the beer Steve. Tom | |
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Cadet57
Posts : 4481 Join date : 2010-03-14 Age : 36 Location : Chicopee, MA
| Subject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong... Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:39 pm | |
| - silverfox103 wrote:
- sdstick wrote:
I'm unfamiliar with your setup but on LT1's the ground cluster right there always hides busted ground wires.
I think Justin may be buying the beer Steve.
Tom I think I might be. Car isn't fixed yet thou. Ran out of daylight and ring terminals | |
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Tomz9C1
Posts : 1498 Join date : 2009-01-21 Age : 61 Location : Rumford, Maine
| Subject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong... Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:10 pm | |
| You need to solder the new ring terms, Trust me | |
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Cadet57
Posts : 4481 Join date : 2010-03-14 Age : 36 Location : Chicopee, MA
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Tomz9C1
Posts : 1498 Join date : 2009-01-21 Age : 61 Location : Rumford, Maine
| Subject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong... Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:22 pm | |
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silverfox103
Posts : 1540 Join date : 2009-01-25 Age : 29 Location : Littleton, NH & St. Simons Island, GA
| Subject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong... Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:42 pm | |
| Well, Justin, is the wagon running yet?
Tom | |
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Cadet57
Posts : 4481 Join date : 2010-03-14 Age : 36 Location : Chicopee, MA
| Subject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong... Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:26 pm | |
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sdstick
Posts : 4292 Join date : 2009-03-20 Location : Revere, MA
| Subject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong... Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:48 pm | |
| Curse you Dorothy.....I'm melting....mmmeltingggg Thats how you know you fixed it right. The splash test. Fix that damn wagon will you. | |
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Cadet57
Posts : 4481 Join date : 2010-03-14 Age : 36 Location : Chicopee, MA
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Matt Trakker
Posts : 5093 Join date : 2009-07-30 Age : 42 Location : Reading, MA
| Subject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong... Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:36 pm | |
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sdstick
Posts : 4292 Join date : 2009-03-20 Location : Revere, MA
| Subject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong... Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:54 pm | |
| - Cadet57 wrote:
- sdstick wrote:
Thats how you know you fixed it right. The splash test. Fix that damn wagon will you. That may be, but I dont feel like mixing electricity and water, and ending up on the same slab that I just left behind at the office. Were you planning on holding onto the coil as you cranked it? That'd be a strech. Or are you 1 of those guys that thinks water lets killer electricity JUMP out of a 12VDC battery? Really...I just want to hear the good news....starts & runs MUCH BETTER | |
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Matt Trakker
Posts : 5093 Join date : 2009-07-30 Age : 42 Location : Reading, MA
| Subject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong... Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:56 pm | |
| Waaaaaaaait...I got this...metal duct tape. | |
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Cadet57
Posts : 4481 Join date : 2010-03-14 Age : 36 Location : Chicopee, MA
| Subject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong... Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:04 pm | |
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Cadet57
Posts : 4481 Join date : 2010-03-14 Age : 36 Location : Chicopee, MA
| Subject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong... Thu Sep 29, 2011 5:47 pm | |
| It wasn't the ground. Battery is charged, still no spark or start. So now where should I look?
Thinking out loud here... Bad coil? Bad ignition control module? Bad ECU? | |
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Matt Trakker
Posts : 5093 Join date : 2009-07-30 Age : 42 Location : Reading, MA
| Subject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong... Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:04 pm | |
| Have you swapped in a coil just in case yet? It's getting NO spark to the plugs, right? Could be a fried ign. module in the distributor as well, but I am sure there is a reasonable way to test these before parts throwing (which I love doing) comes into play. | |
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Cadet57
Posts : 4481 Join date : 2010-03-14 Age : 36 Location : Chicopee, MA
| Subject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong... Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:07 pm | |
| - Matt Trakker wrote:
- Have you swapped in a coil just in case yet? It's getting NO spark to the plugs, right? Could be a fried ign. module in the distributor as well, but I am sure there is a reasonable way to test these before parts throwing (which I love doing) comes into play.
Don't have a spare coil... unless the one out of my brothers 5.0 sedan is the same. And correct, no spark to the plugs. Car won't even crank. Even if its the coil that causes a no spark that wouldnt cause the fuel issue. But what confuses me the MOST is that before the TB rebuild I had spark and it started fine, but after it I have nothing. | |
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Matt Trakker
Posts : 5093 Join date : 2009-07-30 Age : 42 Location : Reading, MA
| Subject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong... Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:20 pm | |
| So it doesn't even turn over from the starter? When my truck's ign module went, it would still turn over I believe. Same with your coil I would assume a dead coil would create the same scenario as removing the coil wire to the center of the dist. cap.
If it is cranking and just not starting, the TBI coil from your brother's car should be the same, I think most of the TBI stuff save for injectors is the same stuff? | |
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1984twodoor
Posts : 4068 Join date : 2010-03-30 Age : 30 Location : Wilmington/Wakefield/Andover
| Subject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong... Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:55 pm | |
| - Matt Trakker wrote:
- So it doesn't even turn over from the starter? When my truck's ign module went, it would still turn over I believe. Same with your coil I would assume a dead coil would create the same scenario as removing the coil wire to the center of the dist. cap.
If it is cranking and just not starting, the TBI coil from your brother's car should be the same, I think most of the TBI stuff save for injectors is the same stuff? Justin, get your least favorite neighbor to lick the coil wire as you crank. If you have to drag them to work with you tomorrow, then the coil is bad. Did you hook everything back up that you took off? Retrace your steps and make sure its all the same as before you took it all apart. | |
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MASShole9C1
Posts : 4294 Join date : 2009-12-16
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Ironfistdog
Posts : 2141 Join date : 2011-01-11 Age : 42 Location : Warren, MA
| Subject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong... Fri Sep 30, 2011 1:15 am | |
| Justin, if I have time this weekend and not not busy I might take a drive out and look. It's something your over looking. Don't stress, we'll get ur guy up and running! I just registered the 92 wagon so hopefully I can fix the brakes this Saturday and maybe swing up Sunday? Pm me to set up details if interested. | |
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Cadet57
Posts : 4481 Join date : 2010-03-14 Age : 36 Location : Chicopee, MA
| Subject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong... Fri Sep 30, 2011 5:30 pm | |
| It's alive! Sorta... Got home from work, once again checked everything I touched recently. And for laughs tried to start it, amazingly it turned over and ran like it has been. After about 5 minutes at idle I got a code 23 for a Manifold Air Temp sensor? (The hell is that?) - Ironfistdog wrote:
- Justin, if I have time this weekend and not not busy I might take a drive out and look. It's something your over looking. Don't stress, we'll get ur guy up and running! I just registered the 92 wagon so hopefully I can fix the brakes this Saturday and maybe swing up Sunday? Pm me to set up details if interested.
Pm Sent! | |
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laidlow91
Posts : 552 Join date : 2009-01-23 Age : 46 Location : New Boston, NH
| Subject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong... Fri Sep 30, 2011 5:42 pm | |
| - Cadet57 wrote:
- After about 5 minutes at idle I got a code 23 for a Manifold Air Temp sensor? (The hell is that?)
the only air temp sensor i know of is the one in the air cleaner box. maybe youve run the car long enough without it plugged in to throw a code??? | |
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Cadet57
Posts : 4481 Join date : 2010-03-14 Age : 36 Location : Chicopee, MA
| Subject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong... Fri Sep 30, 2011 5:49 pm | |
| - laidlow91 wrote:
- Cadet57 wrote:
- After about 5 minutes at idle I got a code 23 for a Manifold Air Temp sensor? (The hell is that?)
the only air temp sensor i know of is the one in the air cleaner box. maybe youve run the car long enough without it plugged in to throw a code??? Hmm you're probably right. Since the airbox had been off the whole time it was running. | |
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silverfox103
Posts : 1540 Join date : 2009-01-25 Age : 29 Location : Littleton, NH & St. Simons Island, GA
| Subject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong... Tue Oct 04, 2011 5:40 pm | |
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Cadet57
Posts : 4481 Join date : 2010-03-14 Age : 36 Location : Chicopee, MA
| Subject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong... Tue Oct 04, 2011 5:42 pm | |
| - silverfox103 wrote:
- Anything new?
Well, Indigo came over Sunday and we poked around for a bit and he seems to think its the EGR as the motor barely reacted when you pushed the diaphragm in. So, ordered a new one. Should be here tomorrow. Also going to replace the coil and ICM to rule those out since I had that no spark issue too. | |
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Ironfistdog
Posts : 2141 Join date : 2011-01-11 Age : 42 Location : Warren, MA
| Subject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong... Tue Oct 04, 2011 10:33 pm | |
| Also Justin I can't remember if you said you changed your o2 sensor, that maybe an issue too. But with no codes being thrown I'm really really leaning towards that erg valve slowly failing. , everytime I've had a car with those symptoms your car displayed. It ended up being the egr. | |
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Cadet57
Posts : 4481 Join date : 2010-03-14 Age : 36 Location : Chicopee, MA
| Subject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong... Sun Oct 09, 2011 1:26 pm | |
| HE'S ALIVE! Turns out it was a bad coil. Got a new one installed, test drove about 5 miles. No hiccups. Going to drive it a bit more tonight just to make 100% sure it's fixed. I love my wagon again. | |
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Matt Trakker
Posts : 5093 Join date : 2009-07-30 Age : 42 Location : Reading, MA
| Subject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong... Sun Oct 09, 2011 2:20 pm | |
| - Cadet57 wrote:
- HE'S ALIVE!
Turns out it was a bad coil. Got a new one installed, test drove about 5 miles. No hiccups. Going to drive it a bit more tonight just to make 100% sure it's fixed. I love my wagon again. AAAAAAGH Justin weren't you supposed to do that a million years ago????? SMH. lol I think I may throw a new coil in my car just to see what happens, runs slightly rough lately. | |
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Cadet57
Posts : 4481 Join date : 2010-03-14 Age : 36 Location : Chicopee, MA
| Subject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong... Sun Oct 09, 2011 2:59 pm | |
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1984twodoor
Posts : 4068 Join date : 2010-03-30 Age : 30 Location : Wilmington/Wakefield/Andover
| Subject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong... Sun Oct 09, 2011 3:48 pm | |
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Cadet57
Posts : 4481 Join date : 2010-03-14 Age : 36 Location : Chicopee, MA
| Subject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong... Sun Oct 09, 2011 3:50 pm | |
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No Moa
Posts : 3893 Join date : 2009-02-21 Age : 51 Location : Midcoast Maine
| Subject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong... Sun Oct 09, 2011 3:56 pm | |
| So you might be able to make that secret run for me this week? | |
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Cadet57
Posts : 4481 Join date : 2010-03-14 Age : 36 Location : Chicopee, MA
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1984twodoor
Posts : 4068 Join date : 2010-03-30 Age : 30 Location : Wilmington/Wakefield/Andover
| Subject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong... Sun Oct 09, 2011 4:23 pm | |
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Matt Trakker
Posts : 5093 Join date : 2009-07-30 Age : 42 Location : Reading, MA
| Subject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong... Sun Oct 09, 2011 7:55 pm | |
| Justin, does the car run noticeably smoother than it did before the coil crapped out (assuming that's what caused the whole thing)...never had one die on me, and don't know what their usual service life is for a TBI...I remember I put an MSD in my Blazer and it ran a little rough, put the old Delco one back and it ran better! | |
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Cadet57
Posts : 4481 Join date : 2010-03-14 Age : 36 Location : Chicopee, MA
| Subject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong... Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:02 pm | |
| - Matt Trakker wrote:
- Justin, does the car run noticeably smoother than it did before the coil crapped out (assuming that's what caused the whole thing)...
Honestly, yes. It also feels like it starts much smoother and faster now too. Accelerating is smoother as well. | |
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Matt Trakker
Posts : 5093 Join date : 2009-07-30 Age : 42 Location : Reading, MA
| Subject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong... Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:15 pm | |
| Maybe I should grab one. My car also has to crank longer when I start it...like 3-4 seconds as opposed to 1-1.5 seconds. I heard that could be a symptom of the coil going out... | |
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Cadet57
Posts : 4481 Join date : 2010-03-14 Age : 36 Location : Chicopee, MA
| Subject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong... Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:18 pm | |
| - Matt Trakker wrote:
- Maybe I should grab one. My car also has to crank longer when I start it...like 3-4 seconds as opposed to 1-1.5 seconds. I heard that could be a symptom of the coil going out...
Yep. Sounds like how my car is now. | |
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Cadet57
Posts : 4481 Join date : 2010-03-14 Age : 36 Location : Chicopee, MA
| Subject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong... Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:25 am | |
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No Moa
Posts : 3893 Join date : 2009-02-21 Age : 51 Location : Midcoast Maine
| Subject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong... Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:38 am | |
| Check fuel pump fuse. Mine did that. | |
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Cadet57
Posts : 4481 Join date : 2010-03-14 Age : 36 Location : Chicopee, MA
| Subject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong... Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:45 am | |
| - No Moa wrote:
- Check fuel pump fuse. Mine did that.
Fuse is good. Swapped relays and that didn't do anything. EDIT: May have solved the issue. We have fuel IN to the throttle body with nothing coming out. Ran a test lamp to the injector harness, has power. No fuel coming out the injectors. Looks like a bad TB or injectors... To the Junkyard! | |
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sdstick
Posts : 4292 Join date : 2009-03-20 Location : Revere, MA
| Subject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong... Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:00 am | |
| Where does the wagon carry its grounds in the rear? I know the impala is in the trunk...yours? You said its a new in tank harness but what about outside the tank? You have the manual? Mines at work but maybe you know? Did you try Billy M's bang the tank method? If the pump was defective & it runs sometimes, that may work. I'm thinking its electrical but I'm guessing. Good Luck | |
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Cadet57
Posts : 4481 Join date : 2010-03-14 Age : 36 Location : Chicopee, MA
| Subject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong... Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:05 am | |
| - sdstick wrote:
- Where does the wagon carry its grounds in the rear?
I know the impala is in the trunk...yours? You said its a new in tank harness but what about outside the tank? You have the manual? Mines at work but maybe you know? Did you try Billy M's bang the tank method? If the pump was defective & it runs sometimes, that may work. I'm thinking its electrical but I'm guessing. Good Luck It has a ground behind the tail light behind the kick panel. I tightened and inspected during the 1st round of trouble shooting. Pump DOES come on and prime when you turn the key to ON. We have fuel pressure up to the TB just nothing coming out the injectors. Injector harness has power. FSM says same, check grounds, ecu, harness for power, etc. | |
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sdstick
Posts : 4292 Join date : 2009-03-20 Location : Revere, MA
| Subject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong... Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:11 am | |
| Didnt you have something like that before when you"adjusted the fuel line" ???or something like that? Well thats good, if you know pressure up the the TB your close | |
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Cadet57
Posts : 4481 Join date : 2010-03-14 Age : 36 Location : Chicopee, MA
| Subject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong... Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:14 am | |
| - sdstick wrote:
- Didnt you have something like that before when you"adjusted the fuel line" ???or something like that? Well thats good, if you know pressure up the the TB your close
We did. But I feel like that was just a temp fix for whatever the real issue is. I think i'll just go to the JY buy a TB there and hope its a good one. Last time I was there they had two '92/93 Roadie sedans with 5.7's. | |
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Ironfistdog
Posts : 2141 Join date : 2011-01-11 Age : 42 Location : Warren, MA
| Subject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong... Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:07 pm | |
| Justin, how's the oil pressure switch? Is it still connected? (come loose?) might be on it's way out??? B the way You WILL need one from a 9c1/LTZ for the gauge swap to work properly. | |
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Cadet57
Posts : 4481 Join date : 2010-03-14 Age : 36 Location : Chicopee, MA
| Subject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong... Tue Oct 11, 2011 6:49 pm | |
| - Ironfistdog wrote:
- Justin, how's the oil pressure switch? Is it still connected? (come loose?) might be on it's way out??? B the way You WILL need one from a 9c1/LTZ for the gauge swap to work properly.
Yeah I know that one. Oil pressure switch is ok... well not causing this issue. According to the FSM if the oil switch is bad it will cut power to the fuel pump. Pump still primes and pushes fuel into the TB. Just nothing coming out. Todays update: Neighbor came over who is a fleet mechanic at the air force base in town, poked around thought it was the TPS. So used a known good one from the TB I bought at the JY today, car started and ran, drove fine. Went out tonight no fuel/no start. HAS spark and power to the injectors, just no spray. Swapped ECU to a known good one no change so that can be ruled out too. Going to swap the injectors tomorrow and see if that changes anything. My neighbor also suggested getting a set of Noid Lights to attach to the injectors to test for signal. | |
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sdstick
Posts : 4292 Join date : 2009-03-20 Location : Revere, MA
| Subject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong... Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:08 pm | |
| I thought you were going to swap out TB's? Rebuild the original when your not stressed out anymore So did you find fuel pressure before or after the regulator? I dont know your setup, just seeing how far the fuel went. | |
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Cadet57
Posts : 4481 Join date : 2010-03-14 Age : 36 Location : Chicopee, MA
| Subject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong... Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:24 pm | |
| - sdstick wrote:
- I thought you were going to swap out TB's?
I was. I bought a TB at the junkyard. But I was told to try the TPS first. When that didnt pan out I started to swap over the new tb but ran out of daylight. - sdstick wrote:
- Rebuild the original when your not stressed out anymore
The original HAS been rebuilt sans new injectors. Even has a new FPR - sdstick wrote:
- So did you find fuel pressure before or after the regulator?
I dont know your setup, just seeing how far the fuel went. I don't know if it goes into the FPR or not, all I know is that fuel goes into the TB but nothing out the injectors. | |
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