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 Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong...

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Cadet57



Posts : 4476
Join date : 2010-03-14
Age : 29
Location : Chicopee, MA

PostSubject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong...   Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:06 pm

I think this is what you call a bad ground.



Shocked

Going to go pick up some new crimp ring thingys tomorrow....
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silverfox103



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Age : 21
Location : Littleton, NH & St. Simons Island, GA

PostSubject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong...   Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:09 pm

sdstick wrote:

I'm unfamiliar with your setup but on LT1's the ground cluster right there always hides busted ground wires.

I think Justin may be buying the beer Steve.

Tom
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Cadet57



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PostSubject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong...   Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:39 pm

silverfox103 wrote:
sdstick wrote:

I'm unfamiliar with your setup but on LT1's the ground cluster right there always hides busted ground wires.

I think Justin may be buying the beer Steve.

Tom

I think I might be. Car isn't fixed yet thou. Ran out of daylight and ring terminals Laughing
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Tomz9C1



Posts : 1486
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Age : 53
Location : Rumford, Maine

PostSubject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong...   Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:10 pm

You need to solder the new ring terms, Trust me Wink
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Cadet57



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PostSubject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong...   Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:13 pm

Tomz9C1 wrote:
You need to solder the new ring terms, Trust me Wink

Which ive yet to be able to master without blisters, melted wires or whipping a hot iron across the yard. Laughing
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Tomz9C1



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PostSubject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong...   Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:22 pm

Cadet57 wrote:
Tomz9C1 wrote:
You need to solder the new ring terms, Trust me Wink

Which ive yet to be able to master without blisters, melted wires or whipping a hot iron across the yard. Laughing

Razz Razz Razz I hear you, that's why I had the expert fix it!
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silverfox103



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PostSubject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong...   Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:42 pm

Well, Justin, is the wagon running yet?

Tom
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Cadet57



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PostSubject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong...   Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:26 pm

silverfox103 wrote:
Well, Justin, is the wagon running yet?

Tom

Not yet! Got out of work just as the sun was shining, bought some new ring terminals got home, got everything cleaned and prepped and just as I was about to install the new terminal it started pouring again. Rolling Eyes Mad No

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sdstick



Posts : 4278
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PostSubject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong...   Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:48 pm

Curse you Dorothy.....I'm melting....mmmeltingggg

Thats how you know you fixed it right. The splash test.
Fix that damn wagon will you. Smile

_________________
Steve


96BBB 28K 3.42 Bolt-ons
95BBB 100K 3.73 383 New DD...already broke fixt the 4L60E twice
95 Black WB4 Hole...ee...grail
96 Black WB4 No holes in this
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Cadet57



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PostSubject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong...   Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:53 pm

sdstick wrote:

Thats how you know you fixed it right. The splash test.
Fix that damn wagon will you. Smile

That may be, but I dont feel like mixing electricity and water, and ending up on the same slab that I just left behind at the office. Laughing
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Matt Trakker



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PostSubject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong...   Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:36 pm

Duct tape!
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sdstick



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PostSubject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong...   Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:54 pm

Cadet57 wrote:
sdstick wrote:

Thats how you know you fixed it right. The splash test.
Fix that damn wagon will you. Smile

That may be, but I dont feel like mixing electricity and water, and ending up on the same slab that I just left behind at the office. Laughing

Were you planning on holding onto the coil as you cranked it?
That'd be a strech.
Or are you 1 of those guys that thinks water lets killer electricity JUMP out of a 12VDC battery?
Really...I just want to hear the good news....starts & runs MUCH BETTER

_________________
Steve


96BBB 28K 3.42 Bolt-ons
95BBB 100K 3.73 383 New DD...already broke fixt the 4L60E twice
95 Black WB4 Hole...ee...grail
96 Black WB4 No holes in this
95BBB 189K 3.08 Old DD Stolen...by Matt. Cool
Whine..eee...Silver LS6
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Matt Trakker



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PostSubject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong...   Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:56 pm

Waaaaaaaait...I got this...metal duct tape.
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Cadet57



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PostSubject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong...   Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:04 pm

sdstick wrote:

Were you planning on holding onto the coil as you cranked it?
That'd be a strech.
Or are you 1 of those guys that thinks water lets killer electricity JUMP out of a 12VDC battery?

Well, im a pretty cynical person so with my luck all of that would happen. That or the water would hit something and short it and i'd be even more screwed. Laughing

But on that note, sun came back out, installed the new ring terminal. *click click click* battery is dead. Mad Mad Mad Mad Mad

sdstick wrote:
Really...I just want to hear the good news....starts & runs MUCH BETTER

At this point, not sure if it will ever happen. Laughing
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Cadet57



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PostSubject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong...   Thu Sep 29, 2011 5:47 pm

It wasn't the ground. Battery is charged, still no spark or start. So now where should I look?

Thinking out loud here... Bad coil? Bad ignition control module? Bad ECU?
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Matt Trakker



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PostSubject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong...   Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:04 pm

Have you swapped in a coil just in case yet? It's getting NO spark to the plugs, right? Could be a fried ign. module in the distributor as well, but I am sure there is a reasonable way to test these before parts throwing (which I love doing) comes into play.
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Cadet57



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PostSubject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong...   Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:07 pm

Matt Trakker wrote:
Have you swapped in a coil just in case yet? It's getting NO spark to the plugs, right? Could be a fried ign. module in the distributor as well, but I am sure there is a reasonable way to test these before parts throwing (which I love doing) comes into play.

Don't have a spare coil... unless the one out of my brothers 5.0 sedan is the same. And correct, no spark to the plugs. Car won't even crank. Even if its the coil that causes a no spark that wouldnt cause the fuel issue. But what confuses me the MOST is that before the TB rebuild I had spark and it started fine, but after it I have nothing.
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Matt Trakker



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PostSubject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong...   Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:20 pm

So it doesn't even turn over from the starter? When my truck's ign module went, it would still turn over I believe. Same with your coil I would assume a dead coil would create the same scenario as removing the coil wire to the center of the dist. cap.


If it is cranking and just not starting, the TBI coil from your brother's car should be the same, I think most of the TBI stuff save for injectors is the same stuff?
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1984twodoor



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PostSubject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong...   Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:55 pm

Matt Trakker wrote:
So it doesn't even turn over from the starter? When my truck's ign module went, it would still turn over I believe. Same with your coil I would assume a dead coil would create the same scenario as removing the coil wire to the center of the dist. cap.


If it is cranking and just not starting, the TBI coil from your brother's car should be the same, I think most of the TBI stuff save for injectors is the same stuff?

Justin, get your least favorite neighbor to lick the coil wire as you crank. If you have to drag them to work with you tomorrow, then the coil is bad.

Did you hook everything back up that you took off? Retrace your steps and make sure its all the same as before you took it all apart.
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MASShole9C1



Posts : 4211
Join date : 2009-12-16

PostSubject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong...   Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:02 pm

Cadet57 wrote:
I think this is what you call a bad ground.



Shocked

Going to go pick up some new crimp ring thingys tomorrow....

Thats what was wrong with my '95 ignition system
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Ironfistdog



Posts : 2124
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Age : 35
Location : Warren, MA

PostSubject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong...   Fri Sep 30, 2011 1:15 am

Justin, if I have time this weekend and not not busy I might take a drive out and look. It's something your over looking. Don't stress, we'll get ur guy up and running! I just registered the 92 wagon so hopefully I can fix the brakes this Saturday and maybe swing up Sunday? Pm me to set up details if interested.
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Cadet57



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PostSubject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong...   Fri Sep 30, 2011 5:30 pm

It's alive!

Sorta...

Got home from work, once again checked everything I touched recently. And for laughs tried to start it, amazingly it turned over and ran like it has been. After about 5 minutes at idle I got a code 23 for a Manifold Air Temp sensor? (The hell is that?)

Ironfistdog wrote:
Justin, if I have time this weekend and not not busy I might take a drive out and look. It's something your over looking. Don't stress, we'll get ur guy up and running! I just registered the 92 wagon so hopefully I can fix the brakes this Saturday and maybe swing up Sunday? Pm me to set up details if interested.

Pm Sent!
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laidlow91



Posts : 552
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Age : 38
Location : New Boston, NH

PostSubject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong...   Fri Sep 30, 2011 5:42 pm

Cadet57 wrote:
After about 5 minutes at idle I got a code 23 for a Manifold Air Temp sensor? (The hell is that?)
the only air temp sensor i know of is the one in the air cleaner box.
maybe youve run the car long enough without it plugged in to throw a code???
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Cadet57



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PostSubject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong...   Fri Sep 30, 2011 5:49 pm

laidlow91 wrote:
Cadet57 wrote:
After about 5 minutes at idle I got a code 23 for a Manifold Air Temp sensor? (The hell is that?)
the only air temp sensor i know of is the one in the air cleaner box.
maybe youve run the car long enough without it plugged in to throw a code???

Hmm you're probably right. Since the airbox had been off the whole time it was running.
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silverfox103



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Location : Littleton, NH & St. Simons Island, GA

PostSubject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong...   Tue Oct 04, 2011 5:40 pm

Anything new?
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Cadet57



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PostSubject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong...   Tue Oct 04, 2011 5:42 pm

silverfox103 wrote:
Anything new?

Well, Indigo came over Sunday and we poked around for a bit and he seems to think its the EGR as the motor barely reacted when you pushed the diaphragm in. So, ordered a new one. Should be here tomorrow. Also going to replace the coil and ICM to rule those out since I had that no spark issue too.
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Ironfistdog



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Age : 35
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PostSubject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong...   Tue Oct 04, 2011 10:33 pm

Also Justin I can't remember if you said you changed your o2 sensor, that maybe an issue too. But with no codes being thrown I'm really really leaning towards that erg valve slowly failing. , everytime I've had a car with those symptoms your car displayed. It ended up being the egr.
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Cadet57



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PostSubject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong...   Sun Oct 09, 2011 1:26 pm

HE'S ALIVE!

Turns out it was a bad coil. Got a new one installed, test drove about 5 miles. No hiccups. Going to drive it a bit more tonight just to make 100% sure it's fixed. I love my wagon again. Laughing
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Matt Trakker



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PostSubject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong...   Sun Oct 09, 2011 2:20 pm

Cadet57 wrote:
HE'S ALIVE!

Turns out it was a bad coil. Got a new one installed, test drove about 5 miles. No hiccups. Going to drive it a bit more tonight just to make 100% sure it's fixed. I love my wagon again. Laughing

AAAAAAGH Justin weren't you supposed to do that a million years ago????? SMH.


lol

I think I may throw a new coil in my car just to see what happens, runs slightly rough lately.
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Cadet57



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PostSubject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong...   Sun Oct 09, 2011 2:59 pm

Matt Trakker wrote:
Cadet57 wrote:
HE'S ALIVE!

Turns out it was a bad coil. Got a new one installed, test drove about 5 miles. No hiccups. Going to drive it a bit more tonight just to make 100% sure it's fixed. I love my wagon again. Laughing

AAAAAAGH Justin weren't you supposed to do that a million years ago????? SMH.

More precisely, about 3 weeks ago when this adventure began. Rolling Eyes

Laughing

Now... lets see if I can get the body work done before the Roundup. Arrow
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1984twodoor



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PostSubject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong...   Sun Oct 09, 2011 3:48 pm

Cadet57 wrote:


Now... lets see if I can get the body work done before the Roundup. Arrow

LOL! Razz Razz Razz

You said it took you about what, two hours per hole?
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Cadet57



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PostSubject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong...   Sun Oct 09, 2011 3:50 pm

1984twodoor wrote:
Cadet57 wrote:


Now... lets see if I can get the body work done before the Roundup. Arrow

LOL! Razz Razz Razz

You said it took you about what, two hours per hole?

That was with me doing it. Hence why I decided to let a professional clean up my mess. For $400 he's going to fill and level out all the studs and holes, paint, and fix my quarters. cheers
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No Moa



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PostSubject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong...   Sun Oct 09, 2011 3:56 pm

So you might be able to make that secret run for me this week? Question
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http://www.collectorfbody.com
Cadet57



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PostSubject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong...   Sun Oct 09, 2011 4:01 pm

No Moa wrote:
So you might be able to make that secret run for me this week? Question

Yep. I sent you a message on Facebook Arrow
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1984twodoor



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PostSubject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong...   Sun Oct 09, 2011 4:23 pm

Cadet57 wrote:
No Moa wrote:
So you might be able to make that secret run for me this week? Question

Yep. I sent you a message on Facebook Arrow

Suspect S.S.
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Matt Trakker



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PostSubject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong...   Sun Oct 09, 2011 7:55 pm

Justin, does the car run noticeably smoother than it did before the coil crapped out (assuming that's what caused the whole thing)...never had one die on me, and don't know what their usual service life is for a TBI...I remember I put an MSD in my Blazer and it ran a little rough, put the old Delco one back and it ran better! Laughing
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Cadet57



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PostSubject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong...   Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:02 pm

Matt Trakker wrote:
Justin, does the car run noticeably smoother than it did before the coil crapped out (assuming that's what caused the whole thing)...


Honestly, yes. It also feels like it starts much smoother and faster now too. Accelerating is smoother as well.
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Matt Trakker



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PostSubject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong...   Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:15 pm

Maybe I should grab one. My car also has to crank longer when I start it...like 3-4 seconds as opposed to 1-1.5 seconds. I heard that could be a symptom of the coil going out...
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Cadet57



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PostSubject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong...   Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:18 pm

Matt Trakker wrote:
Maybe I should grab one. My car also has to crank longer when I start it...like 3-4 seconds as opposed to 1-1.5 seconds. I heard that could be a symptom of the coil going out...

Yep. Sounds like how my car is now.
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Cadet57



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PostSubject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong...   Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:25 am

AAAAAAAAND its dead again. Rolling Eyes Shocked Sad Mad Mad Mad Mad Mad Mad Mad

Went to grab a coffee this am, sitting at a light *bam* stalls out and can't restart it. Has spark, but no fuel.. So back to the fuel thing. WTF?!
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No Moa



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PostSubject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong...   Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:38 am

Check fuel pump fuse. Mine did that.
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Cadet57



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PostSubject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong...   Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:45 am

No Moa wrote:
Check fuel pump fuse. Mine did that.

Fuse is good. Swapped relays and that didn't do anything.

EDIT:

May have solved the issue. We have fuel IN to the throttle body with nothing coming out. Ran a test lamp to the injector harness, has power. No fuel coming out the injectors. Looks like a bad TB or injectors... To the Junkyard!
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sdstick



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PostSubject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong...   Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:00 am

Where does the wagon carry its grounds in the rear?
I know the impala is in the trunk...yours?
You said its a new in tank harness but what about outside the tank?
You have the manual? Mines at work but maybe you know?
Did you try Billy M's bang the tank method?
If the pump was defective & it runs sometimes, that may work.
I'm thinking its electrical but I'm guessing.
Good Luck

_________________
Steve


96BBB 28K 3.42 Bolt-ons
95BBB 100K 3.73 383 New DD...already broke fixt the 4L60E twice
95 Black WB4 Hole...ee...grail
96 Black WB4 No holes in this
95BBB 189K 3.08 Old DD Stolen...by Matt. Cool
Whine..eee...Silver LS6
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Cadet57



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PostSubject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong...   Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:05 am

sdstick wrote:
Where does the wagon carry its grounds in the rear?
I know the impala is in the trunk...yours?
You said its a new in tank harness but what about outside the tank?
You have the manual? Mines at work but maybe you know?
Did you try Billy M's bang the tank method?
If the pump was defective & it runs sometimes, that may work.
I'm thinking its electrical but I'm guessing.
Good Luck

It has a ground behind the tail light behind the kick panel. I tightened and inspected during the 1st round of trouble shooting. Pump DOES come on and prime when you turn the key to ON. We have fuel pressure up to the TB just nothing coming out the injectors. Injector harness has power. FSM says same, check grounds, ecu, harness for power, etc.
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sdstick



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PostSubject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong...   Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:11 am

Didnt you have something like that before when you"adjusted the fuel line" ???or something like that? Well thats good, if you know pressure up the the TB your close

_________________
Steve


96BBB 28K 3.42 Bolt-ons
95BBB 100K 3.73 383 New DD...already broke fixt the 4L60E twice
95 Black WB4 Hole...ee...grail
96 Black WB4 No holes in this
95BBB 189K 3.08 Old DD Stolen...by Matt. Cool
Whine..eee...Silver LS6
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Cadet57



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PostSubject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong...   Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:14 am

sdstick wrote:
Didnt you have something like that before when you"adjusted the fuel line" ???or something like that? Well thats good, if you know pressure up the the TB your close

We did. But I feel like that was just a temp fix for whatever the real issue is. I think i'll just go to the JY buy a TB there and hope its a good one. Last time I was there they had two '92/93 Roadie sedans with 5.7's.
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Ironfistdog



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PostSubject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong...   Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:07 pm

Justin, how's the oil pressure switch? Is it still connected? (come loose?) might be on it's way out??? B the way You WILL need one from a 9c1/LTZ for the gauge swap to work properly.
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Cadet57



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PostSubject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong...   Tue Oct 11, 2011 6:49 pm

Ironfistdog wrote:
Justin, how's the oil pressure switch? Is it still connected? (come loose?) might be on it's way out??? B the way You WILL need one from a 9c1/LTZ for the gauge swap to work properly.

Yeah I know that one. Oil pressure switch is ok... well not causing this issue. According to the FSM if the oil switch is bad it will cut power to the fuel pump. Pump still primes and pushes fuel into the TB. Just nothing coming out.

Todays update:

Neighbor came over who is a fleet mechanic at the air force base in town, poked around thought it was the TPS. So used a known good one from the TB I bought at the JY today, car started and ran, drove fine. Went out tonight no fuel/no start. HAS spark and power to the injectors, just no spray. Swapped ECU to a known good one no change so that can be ruled out too. Going to swap the injectors tomorrow and see if that changes anything. My neighbor also suggested getting a set of Noid Lights to attach to the injectors to test for signal.
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sdstick



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Location : Revere, MA

PostSubject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong...   Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:08 pm

I thought you were going to swap out TB's?
Rebuild the original when your not stressed out anymore lol!
So did you find fuel pressure before or after the regulator?
I dont know your setup, just seeing how far the fuel went.

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Cadet57



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Join date : 2010-03-14
Age : 29
Location : Chicopee, MA

PostSubject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong...   Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:24 pm

sdstick wrote:
I thought you were going to swap out TB's?

I was. I bought a TB at the junkyard. But I was told to try the TPS first. When that didnt pan out I started to swap over the new tb but ran out of daylight.

sdstick wrote:
Rebuild the original when your not stressed out anymore lol!

The original HAS been rebuilt sans new injectors. Even has a new FPR

sdstick wrote:
So did you find fuel pressure before or after the regulator?
I dont know your setup, just seeing how far the fuel went.


I don't know if it goes into the FPR or not, all I know is that fuel goes into the TB but nothing out the injectors.
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PostSubject: Re: Ok... So Something Else Is Wrong...   Today at 4:42 pm

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