BADASS of New England

An automobile club for the enthusiast who enjoys the last of the big GM cars. The rear wheel drive B and D bodys. Chevrolet Impala SS, Caprice, 9C1, Buick Roadmaster, Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser, Cadillac Fleetwood
 
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 No Start---No Spark

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silverfox103



Posts: 1324
Join date: 2009-01-25
Age: 19
Location: Littleton, NH & St. Simons Island, GA

PostSubject: No Start---No Spark   Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:39 pm

Recently bought a RMW that did not run. It's a long term project, but I wanted to get it running by July 4th. The car cranks but will not start. I have ruled out the fuel pump as I have 40 odd pounds pressure.

The first thing I checked was spark at the coil--there was none. Having another RMW that runs perfect, I have been able to swap parts to rule out problems. So far I have eliminated the coil, the PCM, the harness going to the OPTI, the wire going from the coil to the OPTI. I have checked grounds. I have also swapped the OPTI. I have checked #5 fuse.

Still there has been no change. If there were problems with the VATS, would the car turn over?

Does anyone out there have an ideas what to check? IMPALADAKID and toomanytoyz have been a lot of help.

thanks

Tom C.
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Guest



PostSubject: Re: No Start---No Spark   Sat Apr 11, 2009 7:20 am

Tom
I did a search on ISSF, and it seems VATS will only kill power to the starter, and the security light will come on.

I still think those wires going to the coil are to blame. I know you checked them, but maybe while you pulled them, you got the wires to connect better inside the insulation. Once pluged in, you loose the connection. I went through this before. I unpluged the harness and put a volt meter to the harness and got power, but once plugged in, I lost power. I would replace with new coil harness.

You have checked everything, what else could it be? The only other thing I can think of is a bad wire going to pcm.

Keep us posted.
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boojum



Posts: 2057
Join date: 2009-01-21
Age: 27
Location: NH

PostSubject: Re: No Start---No Spark   Sat Apr 11, 2009 8:27 am

There are two parts to the VATS. There is a theft deterrent relay to enable the starter and a signal to the PCM which controls the fuel pump. If it cranks and you heve fuel pressure VATS isn't your problem. Now IIRC the fuel pump shuts off 15 seconds after the car starts if the PCM doesn't get the signal from the VATS module. (edit: maybe it was the injector pulses don't remember exactly)

Is the whole opti new? If the PCM doesn't get the low and high resolution pulses from the opti you won't get any spark. If you have a tach and it doesn't read any RPM while cranking this is your problem. This is what was wrong with my Camaro. The PO was convinced the opti was good since it was replaced just 200 miles ago. Although the opti was new the car sat for a long time. It's nonvented and from the rust it was obvious moisture got inside. I suspect a spark found a path through the moisture to the electronics.

I'm with Bill, check the wiring from the opti to the PCM too. Also check the grounds by the ICM. I'd also consider trying another ICM and PCM. Put a noid light on the injectors IIRC the PCM kills the injectors too with no low/hi res. pulse from the opti.
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silverfox103



Posts: 1324
Join date: 2009-01-25
Age: 19
Location: Littleton, NH & St. Simons Island, GA

PostSubject: Re: No Start---No Spark   Sat Apr 11, 2009 10:05 am

Thanks for the responses!

Bill, I will check the coil wiring again.


Boojum, the OPTI is used, I bought it from Fred in NY. I kind of doubt 2 of them are bad, but stranger things have happened. I swapped OPTI harnesses with my other blue RMW, there was no change and the harness in the white wagon started the blue wagon. That tells me the harness is not the problem. I swapped out the PCM no difference.

I swapped the coils & ICM from one wagon to the other. The white RMW coil started the blue, but the blue would not start the white--coil good. Grounds checked.

I will check wiring again. When I bought it I knew it was not going to be a quick fix. Two owners back the guy did some "rewiring" under the dash. I've got most of that cleaned up. He has also got the auxiliary battery post "mickey moused". But I am not worrying about that until it runs.

thanks

Tom C.
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boojum



Posts: 2057
Join date: 2009-01-21
Age: 27
Location: NH

PostSubject: Re: No Start---No Spark   Sat Apr 11, 2009 11:37 am

There are a bunch of 12v feeds to the PCM. I'd also check them all.
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PostSubject: Re: No Start---No Spark   Sat Apr 11, 2009 3:09 pm

Boy, I miss Larry Cigar.
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silverfox103



Posts: 1324
Join date: 2009-01-25
Age: 19
Location: Littleton, NH & St. Simons Island, GA

PostSubject: Re: No Start---No Spark   Sat Apr 11, 2009 3:44 pm

You know Bill, I was thinking the same. If there is anyone that could solve this it is Larry. Actually I emailed him yesterday, I don't expect a reply. It shows on the forum that his last visit was Feb 27. So he at least peeked one day, I hope he is just taking a break and is OK. I guess it could be someone who just turned on his computer, but I hope it was Larry.

Tom
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boojum



Posts: 2057
Join date: 2009-01-21
Age: 27
Location: NH

PostSubject: Re: No Start---No Spark   Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:11 am

Did you scan for error codes?

I just notice there are Hi/Lo res error codes while looking for something else.

2 MALFFW2 LOGGED MALF FLAG WORD 2
0 CODE 27 EGR ELECTRICAL FAULT (ODM)
1 CODE 26 CCP ELECTRICAL FAULT (ODM)
2 CODE 25 MAT SENSOR HIGH
3 CODE 23 MAT SENSOR LOW
4 CODE 16 LO-RES FAILURE
5 CODE 13 LEFT O2 SENSOR FAILED
6 CODE 12 NO REFERENCE PULSES
7 CODE 11 MALF INDICATOR LAMP (MIL) FAULT

3 MALFFW3 LOGGED MALF FLAG WORD 3
0 CODE 43 ESC FAILURE
1 CODE 42 EST GROUNDED
2 CODE 41 EST OPEN
3 CODE 36 HI-RES FAILURE
4 CODE 48 MASS AIR FLOW SYSTEM FAILURE
5 CODE 47 NOT USED
6 CODE 32 EGR SYSTEM FAULT
7 CODE 29 EAS ELECTRICAL FAULT (ODM)
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silverfox103



Posts: 1324
Join date: 2009-01-25
Age: 19
Location: Littleton, NH & St. Simons Island, GA

PostSubject: Re: No Start---No Spark   Wed Apr 15, 2009 11:49 am

Hi Jim

Thanks for your reply, I haven't had a chance to tinker with the wagon. I hope to this week.

PM sent.

Tom
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