number 1 classic of tomorrow, 77-90 caprice/impala

in popular hot rodding this month they go over the top 10 future classics, topof the list is 77-90 caprice/impala coupe!. Also in the same issue 79 caprice coupe took runner up in their 50 hometown heros article. check it out.

SWEET! And well, NOOOOOO

As you may know, and I am sure Glen (no Moa) knows that parts availability for these cars is..well...not great. Two doors are hard to restore and this will mean that soon all of the perfect ones will be bought up and more expensive than they are now.

I think its good because it will jump start some re-pop parts production, but also this will mean that it will be harder to get perfect originals at a reasonable price. I just hope the prices don't go crazy by the time I'm older with a good job and a house. I'd love to have another two door, I guess four doors are just as good though

Point being I have mixed opinions about this. Then again, Maybe my car will get some ink in a magazine sometime down the line

better get them coupes now.

hotrodjunky1982 wrote:

better get them coupes now.

Yeah, It makes me kind of want to save the 84 lol. Thats ah...a bit of work

they listed ten cars to buy now, i must be ahead of the curve because i want all but one of them, and have owned 4 since 1998 and currently own two.

1 93-02 f body i have a 95 z28 with 76k, car is a 8.8-9.1 out of 10

2 the caprice...nuff said

3 73-77 gm a body, my first car, 73 chevelle 350v8 2 dr 75k miles, long rotted away now!

4 78-87 monte carlo. bought a rust free 2 owner 87 in july 09, distracted SPEEDING mother totalled it out in august of 09 in a horrific t bone, everybody in my car is NOW ok.

hotrodjunky1982 wrote:

in popular hot rodding this month they go over the top 10 future classics, topof the list is 77-90 caprice/impala coupe!. Also in the same issue 79 caprice coupe took runner up in their 50 hometown heros article. check it out.

I have never owned a B-body Coupe, but wasn't the last year for the Chevy B-body two door 1987? I did not see the article yet either, but plan to take a look-see.

Damn and I just sold my 94 Z28 vert.... for CHEAP. Guy is going to rip the drivetrain out and scrap the rest.

Machine-De-Zine (Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:35 am) wrote:

hotrodjunky1982 wrote:

in popular hot rodding this month they go over the top 10 future classics, topof the list is 77-90 caprice/impala coupe!. Also in the same issue 79 caprice coupe took runner up in their 50 hometown heros article. check it out.

I have never owned a B-body Coupe, but wasn't the last year for the Chevy B-body two door 1987? I did not see the article yet either, but plan to take a look-see.

Yeah 1987 is the last year for the two door and none were made in 83. Only 3,110 were made in 87.

1984twodoor (Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:32 am) wrote:

Machine-De-Zine (Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:35 am) wrote:

hotrodjunky1982 wrote:

in popular hot rodding this month they go over the top 10 future classics, topof the list is 77-90 caprice/impala coupe!. Also in the same issue 79 caprice coupe took runner up in their 50 hometown heros article. check it out.

I have never owned a B-body Coupe, but wasn't the last year for the Chevy B-body two door 1987? I did not see the article yet either, but plan to take a look-see.

Yeah 1987 is the last year for the two door and none were made in 83. Only 3,110 were made in 87.

Will an 87 coupe body bolt right up to a four door chassis?

I picture a 1987 coupe, black with light grey gut, composite headlight front clip on an 89 9C1 chassis, L92 head/stroked LQ4 short block powering thru a T56 and 9" Ford tru-track, current Z06 brakes and a killer suspension.

That would be an absolutely stunning looker/performer. Don't forget to install the widest possible tires discretely tucked under the hunkered down body, purely stock appearing, totally under the radar.

Machine-De-Zine wrote:

1984twodoor (Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:32 am) wrote:

Machine-De-Zine (Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:35 am) wrote:

hotrodjunky1982 wrote:

in popular hot rodding this month they go over the top 10 future classics, topof the list is 77-90 caprice/impala coupe!. Also in the same issue 79 caprice coupe took runner up in their 50 hometown heros article. check it out.

I have never owned a B-body Coupe, but wasn't the last year for the Chevy B-body two door 1987? I did not see the article yet either, but plan to take a look-see.

Yeah 1987 is the last year for the two door and none were made in 83. Only 3,110 were made in 87.

Will an 87 coupe body bolt right up to a four door chassis?

I picture a 1987 coupe, black with light grey gut, composite headlight front clip on an 89 9C1 chassis, L92 head/stroked LQ4 short block powering thru a T56 and 9" Ford tru-track, current Z06 brakes and a killer suspension.

That would be an absolutely stunning looker/performer. Don't forget to install the widest possible tires discretely tucked under the hunkered down body, purely stock appearing, totally under the radar.

Pretty much exactly what I had in mind for a project before I found my 96 SS for a song. That thing would be a KILLER sleeper.

Doug

Pooge wrote:

[
Pretty much exactly what I had in mind for a project before I found my 96 SS for a song. That thing would be a KILLER sleeper.

Doug

I have looked at several 87 coupes, but knowing what it costs to repair those nearly impossible to get doors, I passed on them.
If I did not truly love four door 88-90 Caprices so much, I am sure I would have had at least one Coupe by now, however:
When really nice clean four doors are so much more of a bargain, its hard to pay such a high premium ($) for two less doors.

1984twodoor wrote:

Yeah 1987 is the last year for the two door and none were made in 83. Only 3,110 were made in 87.

I have one of those! lol

No Moa wrote:

1984twodoor wrote:

Yeah 1987 is the last year for the two door and none were made in 83. Only 3,110 were made in 87.

I have one of those! lol

Well then, we need to talk.

No Moa wrote:

1984twodoor wrote:

Yeah 1987 is the last year for the two door and none were made in 83. Only 3,110 were made in 87.

I have one of those! lol

1984twodoor wrote:

No Moa wrote:

1984twodoor wrote:

Yeah 1987 is the last year for the two door and none were made in 83. Only 3,110 were made in 87.

I have one of those! lol

What are your plans for that car? If the understructure, floors, doors and interior are still good, its got to have a ton of potential.

Drivetrain and suspension problems are not an issue. Its all about the chassis, body and interior condition.

I see this as a good basis for the sleeper I described above.

Body and floors are ok. Doors are not, they are rusted. I'm going to blast it and mount it on a 95 civi frame I have.

And try to find some doors.

No Moa wrote:

Body and floors are ok. Doors are not, they are rusted. I'm going to blast it and mount it on a 95 civi frame I have.

And try to find some doors.

Man, good luck on finding/repairing those doors! A coworker spent at least two years hunting and finally found two on-line from Arizona.

I saw what came out of the shipping crates, needless to say, BIG money spent and BIGGER disappointment!

The only positive thing you could say for those crumpled doors was that they were not rusted out! Good thing he is a good body man.

Are you sure that the early boxy bumpers will mount up correctly?

I believe there may be some differences there, although everything else is the same, engine and suspension-wise.

So, does a boxy two door body bolt right up to a boxy 9C1 four door chassis?

When do the pre 77 coupes go from derby cars to collectors? My 75 Impala is still awaiting a restore

95brmw wrote:

When do the pre 77 coupes go from derby cars to collectors? My 75 Impala is still awaiting a restore

I hope you are already diligently collecting any parts you may need for that restoration, kuz those years are "slim-pickins" for body parts.

Machine-De-Zine wrote:

Are you sure that the early boxy bumpers will mount up correctly?

I believe there may be some differences there, although everything else is the same, engine and suspension-wise.

So, does a boxy two door body bolt right up to a boxy 9C1 four door chassis?

It has been done locally:

https://badass-of-ne.forumotion.com/introductions-and-signiture-testing-f18/post-pics-of-your-b-or-d-bodys-t121.htm#3018

https://badass-of-ne.forumotion.com/modifications-performance-f7/bump-stop-question-t383.htm#3925

Machine-De-Zine wrote:

I picture a 1987 coupe, black with light grey gut, composite headlight front clip on an 89 9C1 chassis, L92 head/stroked LQ4 short block powering thru a T56 and 9" Ford tru-track, current Z06 brakes and a killer suspension.

That would be an absolutely stunning looker/performer. Don't forget to install the widest possible tires discretely tucked under the hunkered down body, purely stock appearing, totally under the radar.

Why the '89 chassis - were they any better built?

I'd rather see one on a late Panther chassis though - 25 years of technology & development ought to have some benefits.

Zero scrub radius front ends and parallel 4 bars / Watts linkage would be difficult to retrofit.

Plus the cast aluminum crossmember configuration opens up lots of room to accomodate alternative engine options.

- J

[quote="JaySS"][
It has been done locally:

https://badass-of-ne.forumotion.com/introductions-and-signiture-testing-f18/post-pics-of-your-b-or-d-bodys-t121.htm#3018

https://badass-of-ne.forumotion.com/modifications-performance-f7/bump-stop-question-t383.htm#3925

I just got back in the house after measuring both chassis bumper extensions, (horns). Yes J, you are correct, frame mounting is the same. Thanks, G-

New chassis (91-96) have additional mounting holes for ABS, exhaust hangers, welded front braces, etc. I have no Helms books on 77-87 B-bodies for 2 dr specs.

JaySS wrote:

Why the '89 chassis - were they any better built?

I'd rather see one on a late Panther chassis though - 25 years of technology & development ought to have some benefits.

Zero scrub radius front ends and parallel 4 bars / Watts linkage would be difficult to retrofit.

Plus the cast aluminum crossmember configuration opens up lots of room to accomodate alternative engine options.

- J

Any 9C1 B-body is fine for me. I have several 89 9C1 chassis so the year is not important.

Unmodified, neither the GM B or the Panther will get it done for me. They would HAVE to be enhanced. (at my cost)

I like the GM B-boxy body styling and GM power-trains. Ultimately the limit (aside from money) is traction with D.O.T.rubber.

With that GM B-body chassis I can vastly out-handle the stock Panther with an un-molested GM sourced bolt on body and suspension parts.

I can bolt in a Fays 2 watts link if necessary. Even without that, I can still fairly easily (and affordably) out-do the best practical street legal tires on good roads, without cutting and welding.

http://www.scandc.com/wattslink.htm

The biggest challenges shared by both platforms, are mass, bulk and a high polar moment of inertia. But I like big cars.

At the end of the day, for what it would cost and involve in modifications to a Panther platform, I could get what I am looking for much more directly (cheaply) with GMs B-body.

Also what would happen if I got "T-boned" on the road. With my B-body, I just un-bolt ALL my components and go find another "shell", but in a Panther, that would be a near total loss.

Granted, if I HAD to leave it stock, the Panther platform does ride and grip better. And then I would just get (or clone) one of the awesome J.Roush prepared stick-shift police training cars.

A proper amount of L to R balanced scrub radius, coupled with caster, helps center the steering coming out of a corner, and a little effort to overcome going into a corner, no?

Of course too much S/R is bad. That is mainly why 4th gen F-bodies abandoned the modified McPhaerson strut of the third. -G

Machine-De-Zine wrote:

New chassis (91-96) have additional mounting holes for ABS, exhaust hangers, welded front braces, etc. I have no Helms books on 77-87 B-bodies for 2 dr specs.

Are those bad, or you just don't want to have the unnecesary holes?

BTW - the earlier bubbles - '91 through '93 IIRC - did have removable braces.

This is what I was refering to earlier - the Crown Vic setup frees up lots of real estate for things like batwing oilpans, full length headers and turbo downpipes



- J

Machine-De-Zine wrote:

At the end of the day, for what it would cost and involve in modifications to a Panther platform, I could get what I am looking for much more directly (cheaply) with GMs B-body.

Also what would happen if I got "T-boned" on the road. With my B-body, I just un-bolt ALL my components and go find another "shell", but in a Panther, that would be a near total loss.

Not sure I follow, unless you are saying with your investment in B-car parts it would be difficult to start over, that I would understand.

Machine-De-Zine wrote:

A proper amount of L to R balanced scrub radius, coupled with caster, helps center the steering coming out of a corner, and a little effort to overcome going into a corner, no?

Of course too much S/R is bad. That is mainly why 4th gen F-bodies abandoned the modified MacPherson strut of the third.

- G

I wasn't aware that the 3rd Gens were deficient in that area, I had thought that some was desirable for braking stability and with the advent of ABS systems, that amount was able to be reduced. I'll need to read up on the subject to understand it better.

As always, thank you for the input.

- J

BTW - Tell us more about your Brembo brake system.

J,

Why do you have a 03 on CV subframe on your floor? Are you switching sides on us? lol.


And does it work, i have an 03 in my yard right now with that same setup.

Glen

JaySS wrote:

[
Are those bad, or you just don't want to have the unnecesary holes?

BTW - the earlier bubbles - '91 through '93 IIRC - did have removable braces.

This is what I was refering to earlier - the Crown Vic setup frees up lots of real estate for things like batwing oilpans, full length headers and turbo downpipes



- J

All HD 9C1 frames are fine with me, I just happen to have a spare 89 chassis.

I must have assumed that the welded braces came with the introduction of the bubble, but the LT1-L99 change-over point makes more sense.

That Panther upgrade (in the photo) to what looks like some variety of Ford truck"Twin-I-Beam" chassis HAS to be a HUGE improvement. I HATE those ford L/D truck front ends!

I do firmly believe that the stock geometry in the stock B-body is REALLY very good.

If you take out much of the excessive compliance of the stock bushings with better parts, the co-ordinates plot out on the computer VERY VERY WELL for handling as delivered from GM!

The same can NOT be said for the G-bodies though.

I have not researched what can be done to improve that panther front end but I do know how easy it is to get incredibly good results affordably with the GM B-body set-up with it's excellent aftermarket support.

If I was in any way frustrated by troublesome fundamental design flaws of this set-up, I would seek to abandon it and look carefully at the Ford alternatives.

Is that one of your projects in the photo?[left]

No Moa wrote:

J,

Why do you have a 03 on CV subframe on your floor? Are you switching sides on us?

Glen

No, not mine - just yet. if I was going to switch, I'd be looking for a Marauder, or Crown Vic Sport to put an LS into.

Machine-De-Zine wrote:

If I was in any way frustrated by troublesome fundamental design flaws of this set-up, I would seek to abandon it and look carefully at the Ford alternatives.

Is that one of your projects in the photo?

I pulled the pic off of the FORDification truck forum as an example. I have been thinking about this one for awhile though. It's not that there is anything wrong with the B-car stuff, just the crossmember / steering shaft / inside-to-inside frame width may be of some benefit from a packaging standpoint with certain engine configurations. I just haven't finished thinking it through.



If some advantages are there, it may be worthwhile to consider switching to the CV suspension over upgrading the existing stuff. At the way things are looking, I will likely end up with one on my garage floor to see before I'm done.

No Moa wrote:

And does it work, I have an 03 in my yard right now with that same setup.

Glen

Does that mean you have one driving or - even better - one that is up on blocks waiting to be parted?

- J

I have one that The SO can't make up their mind what to do with it. Rear end is blown, rusty. Steering is lose

Machine-De-Zine wrote:

95brmw wrote:

When do the pre 77 coupes go from derby cars to collectors? My 75 Impala is still awaiting a restore

I hope you are already diligently collecting any parts you may need for that restoration, kuz those years are "slim-pickins" for body parts.

Yeah, it's just as bad as the 2 door 80s coupes when it comes to finding parts. They have been collector cars for quite a long time, as any two-door Chevrolet (aka Impala/Caprice/etc.) pretty much is, at the same time as being demo derby cars. They made so many of them, people didn't care and a lot of the cars just wound up being driven into the ground or crashed into trees by teenagers in the mid-1980s. I remember them being everywhere until I was about 5 years old, then they disappeared. I always have people coming up to me saying how they haven't seen a car like mine in so long, where did I find it, etc.
You see certain models once in a while like convertibles and the 2 door B-pillared coupe/sedans because they weren't usable in derbies. Not many wagons left, 4 door sedans...The demo derby factor is bad because they're essentially the most desirable and strongest cars for it. Why use a 77+ car when you can use a 71-76 with a 74 shock bumper? Guys travel hundreds of miles to drag them home when they find them.
My old 74 has been through several with more on the way according to a guy I talked to at a cruise night recently who is a friend of the current owner, and that car is a pillarless hardtop to boot.
You can find a lot of trim from some guys who realize what they have is valuable to others but a few of them are assholes or seem to have a screw loose, and will start a flamewar over nothing on their forums or just throw all their rare trim/lenses/other stuff in the dumpster to spite people like us, get in fights at events taunting other drivers, everything. They actually think wanton destruction is funny and probably get a boner from it.

About 6 years ago you could still find a lot of NOS GM parts still in boxes online, but the whole "donk" thing going on down South has kind of depleted that as well as driven all the prices up which is sad, because I see NOS stuff like this being used to make a car anything other than stock appearing body-wise as a waste. That stuff is only original once. And yet, you still don't see things like Goodmark resto body panels, etc. for us folks yet. WTF?

Me, I wound up just finding a whole other car the same model as mine, totally by chance, that didn't really need major resto. I sold some of my parts on eBay when I realized I wouldn't be fixing the other '74 I had. There are places to get refurb. body panels online and NOS quarters do pop up from time to time...best bet is get something from a junkyard in Arizona, or keep scanning the web. Might have to find a place like this as well:

https://badass-of-ne.forumotion.com/bad-talk-f5/brobdingnagian-huge-ass-rhode-island-junkyard-but-you-re-not-supposed-to-go-t845.htm?highlight=junkyard



LOL

Much of this applies to the boxy cars too and even the bubbles these days.

RE: The magazine article, has anyone found it online at all? I looked at the mag's website but didn't see anything. Sounds like a good read!

JaySS wrote:

Machine-De-Zine wrote:

New chassis (91-96) have additional mounting holes for ABS, exhaust hangers, welded front braces, etc. I have no Helms books on 77-87 B-bodies for 2 dr specs.

Are those bad, or you just don't want to have the unnecesary holes?

BTW - the earlier bubbles - '91 through '93 IIRC - did have removable braces.

This is what I was refering to earlier - the Crown Vic setup frees up lots of real estate for things like batwing oilpans, full length headers and turbo downpipes



- J

I guess a good way to clarify what are my intensions and expectations for street cars would be to say that I am aware that at some point a vehicle is not well suited (or even legal) to be mixing with regular traffic.

When there are no practical street tires that can deliver the full performance potential of a car, then either your hard work has just taken one step too far, or its time to move your activities to the closed circuit race track.

If full race compound non-DOT tires are required, then its time to get it off the public roads. We all have seen street cars that make you ask 'What did this builder think he was going to do with this monster?'.

I do enjoy the gratification of out-accelerating, out-cornering, out-braking all manor of high-dollar stock exotic european sports car with a Caprice that can be easily returned to exactly pure stock condition.

Its true that those cars can be modified as well, and in the right hands, a properly sorted out modified all-wheel drive turbo Porsche with the very best DOT tires Michelin PS2s will clobber me on a race track.

That is a world away from mine. That is cubic money at work, not cubic inches, but I know I could stun many of those guys with my ultra low-dollar Chevy.

If I conspired to beat them in a "no-holds-barred" effort, I would be building a carbon fiber monocoque C5R powered race car from the ground up.

The Brembos on the Dually and 96 9C1 are both just the rotors with EBC Yellow-Stuff compound and stock GM calipers. I did not mean to suggest I had some big 8-piston GT3 Monoblocks on two piece 380mmx35mm discs.

BTW, I highly recommend this combination, stock rotor size with YellowStuff pads. Its the first time such a small change of parts made it seem like I increased rotor diameter substantially. All done WITHOUT adding rotating inertia!

The chassis I am building for the 96 9C1 has Kore-3 2010 ZO6 brakes at all four corners with ATS/AFX front spindles upgraded to DBA 4000 series rotors and Hawk HP Plus compound. Should I send photos? -G

As far as the 3rd gen F-bodies, the "shock" is the K/P axis, and the entire wheel sits OUTboard, in my case 295/40 on 11x17. Ridiculous scrub radius!

Glen, I really do wish you all of the best luck that you could possibly have with those doors, because I searched for three years for a set and found them for 300 bucks. And I'm sorry but I REALLY can't let them go, I need them for the 87 if anything should ever happen. I simply cannot afford to part with them.


And 80s two doors are impossible to find parts for. IMPOSSIBLE! It sucks, thats why that red car kept rusting, there were no parts for it. I want to throw it on the road and drive it until its not safe to anymore, but I also want to cut it up for my own use because having one two door almost requires having another. Thats why I had a negative reaction to the original article that started this thread. I'm never selling the 87, EVER. even if I have to drive it through the winter, It's not going anywhere.

Sometimes you get lucky, often times you DO NOT It sucks but thats how it is. And the best source for the teeny tiny amount of parts you can get for them, is Classic Industries. Try them out, they have a few patch panels for 77-79 cars, but they only have the common stuff like header panels for boxys from 80-90

BUT GLEN! They do have two door rockers if I remember correctly. Again, Good luck finding the doors.

I had been keeping an eye out for parts on ebay, but pickings are slim. I managed to find a dash that wasn't cracked cheap, and a NOS floor mat. What the car really needs is rear quarters (stuff falls out of the trunk their so rusty!), and part of the frame is rotted by the DS rear wheel. It had a vinyl roof, but that flew off on the highway (so I'm told) many years before it was parked. I have NOS wheel well trim that my Dad bought years ago when he was alive, I wish he had bought a rust free parts car we went and looked at all those years ago. The rest is mechanical work which being a 350 is no big deal. For those interested, heres a video I uploaded a while back of the car starting and running on 6 year old gas. That was 4 years ago.

I have a line on some doors already.

No Moa wrote:

I have a line on some doors already.

Lucky

95brmw wrote:

I had been keeping an eye out for parts on ebay, but pickings are slim. I managed to find a dash that wasn't cracked cheap, and a NOS floor mat. What the car really needs is rear quarters (stuff falls out of the trunk their so rusty!), and part of the frame is rotted by the DS rear wheel. It had a vinyl roof, but that flew off on the highway (so I'm told) many years before it was parked. I have NOS wheel well trim that my Dad bought years ago when he was alive, I wish he had bought a rust free parts car we went and looked at all those years ago. The rest is mechanical work which being a 350 is no big deal. For those interested, heres a video I uploaded a while back of the car starting and running on 6 year old gas. That was 4 years ago.

Where are the quarters rotted? If it's just the lower part behind the wheels, they make a crappy patch for just the rear half of the quarter. A body man worth his salt can probably scavenge one of those to patch your car, however I wouldn't try to do the whole thing with an entire quarter skin, they're poorly designed. I've seen NOS ones on eBay a few times! The good thing is where the body tucks in at the bottom is flat metal, and can be patched easier than a 77-90.

DO NOT sell those wheel opening moldings. They are unobtainium. If you have a set, it's almost worth finding a decent car just to put them on. LOL

Is it the rear frame rail that's rotted, or ahead of the axle? Might be able to plate the frame. The roof looks good for being a vinyl top car.

I understand the car having sentimental value to you, I would try to fix it. My green one was in BAD shape, to give you an idea of how decent yours looks:

https://badass-of-ne.forumotion.com/t841-so-i-found-out-what-happened-to-my-old-impala

Off Topic.

Jay, in NH I've been told you could be asking for trouble putting a LSx in a '96 and up Ford. As part of the inspection, info from the PCM is sent to the state office. I don't know the details of what is sent/checked.

And thanks for posting the CV front end so now everyone knows. See you at the auctions buddy.

Just joking, if you want to try to get one or even a roller get in touch with me before early spring.

Wow, makes mine look mint! The rot is not on the wheel wells themselves, its the lower part of the quarters, you can't really see it unless you are under the car or in the trunk. I THINK the rot on the frame was behind the axle, but don't remember. I haven't actually seen the car in about 2 years. Its in storage at what was my Grandmother's garage, when she passed my aunt got the house and said the car could stay there.

And BTW, that is a really sad end to an awesome car. Thats part of the reason why I have a hard time selling any of mine, just want them to go to a good home.

Yeah, you may be able save that car and at least drive it. My yellow Impala has had small patches welded in the quarters at some point a long time ago, while the car has light rust here and there the problem never returned so I guess they caught the cancer. I worked on a movie with my yellow one where a guy who had a 69 Catalina convertible patched the frame together in like 4 places just to keep driving the car. The body looked fine.