BADASS of New England

An automobile club for the enthusiast who enjoys the last of the big GM cars. The rear wheel drive B and D bodys. Chevrolet Impala SS, Caprice, 9C1, Buick Roadmaster, Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser, Cadillac Fleetwood
 
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 stumped on brakes- can't get a firm pedal on the 9C1

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FUN-9C1



Posts : 145
Join date : 2009-05-09
Location : lakes region, NH

PostSubject: stumped on brakes- can't get a firm pedal on the 9C1   Sun Jul 06, 2014 9:51 am

Bear with me while I explain the order of events here...
1. noticed spongy brakes and full (albeit a little slow) pedal travel to the floor
2. Fluid was very low, maybe 1/8" above the bottom of the resevoir
3. Could pump the brake all I wanted, no fluid leaked out
4. Although fluid was low, there was still some in there, so with no leaks to be found, replaced master cylinder and filled resevoir.
5. The new m.c. did not do $%^& except now I see an obvious leak from the line that goes from the front bottom of the pressure reg block (under the m.c.) to the top pass side of the abs block.
6. Replaced that line (went point A to point B, not down to the frame and back up), bled brakes RR to LF with a vacuum pump, brakes still spongy, brake light comes on intermittently.
7. Bled the !@#$ out of the brakes again with the same results as #6.

I read in the FSM something about an "automatic" procedure for bleeding brakes where a tool is used to open ports in the ABS system to completely bleed the system if the resevoir has been run dry, or basically, I think, if air has gotten into the "upper" part of the system upstream of the ABS stuff.

Is there a way for Joe Schmo to bleed correctly, including the ABS part, without that tool?
If not, any reason I can't bypass the ABS block? I don't have ABS anyway due to the 4.10s
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sdstick



Posts : 4278
Join date : 2009-03-20
Location : Revere, MA

PostSubject: Re: stumped on brakes- can't get a firm pedal on the 9C1   Sun Jul 06, 2014 10:23 am

These cars gravity bleed... so longest line to shortest...but if you vacuum bled properly wont matter.

ABS can be deleted / bypassed

Are your pads new & pins lubed?...I only seem to get a great pedal when everythings been freshened up

_________________
Steve


96BBB 28K 3.42 Bolt-ons
95BBB 100K 3.73 383 New DD...already broke fixt the 4L60E twice
95 Black WB4 Hole...ee...grail
96 Black WB4 No holes in this
95BBB 189K 3.08 Old DD Stolen...by Matt. Cool
Whine..eee...Silver LS6
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Ironfistdog



Posts : 2124
Join date : 2011-01-11
Age : 35
Location : Warren, MA

PostSubject: Re: stumped on brakes- can't get a firm pedal on the 9C1   Sun Jul 06, 2014 10:33 am

Did you bench bleed the master cylinder before installing?

Delete the ABS. I pulled all of mine out, no issues.
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FUN-9C1



Posts : 145
Join date : 2009-05-09
Location : lakes region, NH

PostSubject: Re: stumped on brakes- can't get a firm pedal on the 9C1   Sun Jul 06, 2014 10:44 am

Yes, forgot to mention, I did bench-bleed the master cylinder.
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IMPALADAKID
Admin


Posts : 1512
Join date : 2009-01-17
Age : 48

PostSubject: Re: stumped on brakes- can't get a firm pedal on the 9C1   Sun Jul 06, 2014 6:22 pm

You may be able to command the ABS to open and close for proper bleed. But I have never needed to do this with our cars. If you installed a new MC, and you bench bled it, you will still have residual air. You start with the passengers rear, and bleed it till you have no air bubbles, just fluid. If using all new fluid as you are, you will know when you are done, or close by the color of the fluid. Then you do the drivers rear. Then the passengers front, followed by the drivers front. Might even want to go around one more time. Just make sure you keep the MC filled, and never let it run dry during the procedure, or you will have to start all over again. I have my wife Pump, pump, pump, hold! I break the crack the bleeder til she says floor. That lets me know to snug up the bleeder, and we start all over again. I have bled a axle once, and I have done it 5 times. Just look for clear steady fluid.

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2014 Chevrolet Silverado LTZ Z71 5.3 Aluminum V8 (My daily)
2007 Pontiac G6 VL 2.4 I4 (Wife's Daily)
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MalibuSSwagon



Posts : 576
Join date : 2013-06-17
Age : 32
Location : Weare, NH

PostSubject: Re: stumped on brakes- can't get a firm pedal on the 9C1   Sun Jul 06, 2014 10:23 pm

I've never had an issue bleeding an ABS car that was ABS related. Just bleed as normal.
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Matt Trakker



Posts : 5075
Join date : 2009-07-30
Age : 35
Location : Reading, MA

PostSubject: Re: stumped on brakes- can't get a firm pedal on the 9C1   Sun Jul 06, 2014 11:04 pm

I think the older ABS systems with the huge aluminum block thing (like early 1990s Chevy trucks, etc.) were prone to issues from bleeding the brakes...you could suck air into that if the MC went dry, then they would hook a machine to it to cycle the pump and bleed the air out of it?

I need to do the fronts on the SS, I think the rotors are worn from it not having the brake bolt mod and it's contributing to a slightly crappy pedal feel.
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MalibuSSwagon



Posts : 576
Join date : 2013-06-17
Age : 32
Location : Weare, NH

PostSubject: Re: stumped on brakes- can't get a firm pedal on the 9C1   Mon Jul 07, 2014 9:03 am

Actually Matt, that does remind me. My Dad had a similar issue with his 94 GMC truck a few years ago. The rear brake line popped and ran out of fluid. We replaced the line and could not get fluid out of it. The Master GM tech at his dealership told him there is a valve that closes when there is a sudden loss of pressure in the rear brakes to prevent total brake loss. So apparently to release this valve, get the vehicle up to 15-20 mph, and stomp the brakes. I'm talking like emergency stop. This worked for us, we were able to get fluid to the rear after stomping the brakes.
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sdstick



Posts : 4278
Join date : 2009-03-20
Location : Revere, MA

PostSubject: Re: stumped on brakes- can't get a firm pedal on the 9C1   Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:58 am

Thats not just the proportioning valve youre talking about? ...was the brake light lit?=prop valve
You dont have to emergency stop, just bring pressure to both sides to balance & turn out the light.
I dont think the ABS does strange shyt like that.

_________________
Steve


96BBB 28K 3.42 Bolt-ons
95BBB 100K 3.73 383 New DD...already broke fixt the 4L60E twice
95 Black WB4 Hole...ee...grail
96 Black WB4 No holes in this
95BBB 189K 3.08 Old DD Stolen...by Matt. Cool
Whine..eee...Silver LS6
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Tomz9C1



Posts : 1486
Join date : 2009-01-21
Age : 54
Location : Rumford, Maine

PostSubject: Re: stumped on brakes- can't get a firm pedal on the 9C1   Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:13 am

This may help push all the air out.
http://youtu.be/Ng_trFj9gg0
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FUN-9C1



Posts : 145
Join date : 2009-05-09
Location : lakes region, NH

PostSubject: Re: stumped on brakes- can't get a firm pedal on the 9C1   Wed Aug 19, 2015 12:07 pm

I thought I would follow up with this, and I appreciate all the responses. What I did to fix the spongy brake issue was to drive it! IIRC the sponginess went away after 2-3 days of driving. So that was easy... Smile
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