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 1,000hp LT1 Build

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bfurches



Posts: 1057
Join date: 2010-04-20
Age: 27
Location: Springfield, MA

PostSubject: 1,000hp LT1 Build   Wed Nov 24, 2010 7:06 pm

The Caprice is finally off the road for the rest of the year, as I prepare to put it under the knife. I have posted elsewhere on this site on how I plan on building the car to be competitive in the x275 racing class (more info can be found at www.x275.net).

With this new class of racing, it will take a lot of work to be competitive. Many of these racers have quite large budgets (unlike myself), and many of them are running some SERIOUS numbers (mid to low 8 second 1/4 miles....some of the elite even dipping into the 7's).

Granted this project motor is going into a box caprice, however I feel the information is much more applicable to the 91-96 chassis for obvious reasons. I plan on building this motor as cost effectively as possible, and I want to carefully document all the steps of the way with a constantly updated price list so other members can get an idea of what it would cost to build a massive power-plant such as this on a budget. I would really like to show some of the members how careful planning, research and a little elbow grease can make an awesome mill to compete with the best right from there home garage.

Why an LT1 (ltx)?

-I have decided to build an LT based engine for quite a few reasons. One of the biggest reasons for choosing this motor as a base is simply how cheap a stout bottom end can be assembled (by cheap, I am referring to comparison of the lsx based engines, or big blocks). The LTx series of engines where greatly based on the traditional small block chevy, which lends a practically limitless line of aftermarket products to choose from. Cranks, rods and pistons from a standard small block chevy are all interchangeable with a standard LTx block. (There is however a difference in the rear main seal construction on pre '86 blocks, but can be addressed with a simple adapter.)

Another reason I have chosen to go the LTx route is the cooling system. When GM rerouted the cooling system to first pass through the cylinder heads, temperatures closest to the combustion chamber were dropped significantly. This allows the motors to run higher compression on pump gas without seeing detonation when compared to an older style motor. This is a very significant feature for myself since I am building a turbo engine, yet plan to keep the static pressure up to rely less on the boost (this is a topic I will get into later in the thread). Quality electric water pumps are also significantly cheaper for these engines when compared to LSx family of engines, and in most cases even gen 1 small blocks (by quality I am reffering to companies such as Meziere and CSR).

The design and flow of the oem cylinder head castings are also worth mentioning. Fresh out of the box, LT1 aluminum cylinder heads flow above 200cfm @ .500" lift. This is through a stock unported casting with 1.94/1.50 valve combination. This goes to show that with someone talented behind the reins of a dremel, VERY promising numbers can be achieved from an OEM cylinder head. This is huge for anyone who is budget minded, since it is a clear alternative to a 1,900.00 set of heads. A great article on the oem LT1 heads can be found at this link: http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/4606_chevrolet_lt1_engine_info/index.html

My final reason for deciding upon the LTx series, is the ignition options associated...and NO, I am not referring to the dreaded opti-spark. Yes...when the opti is functioning properly, it is a very accurate system, however GM really outdid themselves when they developed the coil-near-plug solution for the LSx family. This ignition system can be adapted to run on the LTx platform quite cost effectively. For a price which is not too bad, you can purchase a complete swap from www.eficonnection.com. However, with a little ingenuity and junk yard hunting, the key components can be had for quite cheaper. Plain and simple, these new ignition systems are far more accurate then the archaic distributor...especially in a boosted application.

My Goals

Essentially I am trying to assemble a bulletproof rotating assembly to support 1,000hp in a budget friendly manor. I want a motor which is still streetable and can sustain the abuse of occasional stop and go traffic. I plan on reaching my power coals through the use of a single turbocharger, blown through a carbureted manifold. While carburetition if my fuel delivery system of choice, I want to utilize a modern programmable ignition system. This motor needs to be a piece that anyone could duplicate if they had the time and dedication with practically off the shelf products.

I will try to update the post as often as possible with each new post discussing a different aspect of the build.
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Machine-De-Zine



Posts: 508
Join date: 2010-11-16
Age: 57
Location: Wrentham

PostSubject: Re: 1,000hp LT1 Build   Wed Nov 24, 2010 9:19 pm

Prepare for a LONG night. Check out what they are doing at Advanced Induction Cylinder Head Development (AI) . . . http://www.advancedinduction.com/AiProducts.html . . . and, Ellwein (Karl) . . . http://www.ellweinengines.com/ . . . Spend as much time as required here, and believe me, I spent ridiculous time here @ Ellwein looking at the various LT1+4 combinations being done RIGHT! I am probably going to get AFR LT4 210s and work with the master himself, Henry Kunz. My parts accumulation for the 396 LT is starting to come along. I sonic checked the block with the BHJ tester & it was good, Weston Machine 4 bolt main conversion, bronze lifter bore installation, new Morel lifters, Callies 3.875" crank, $1,700.00 in new GM parts for the clean install (brackets, hoses, & other OEM stuff), complete clutch/brake pedal assy for the F2Bkit coming soon, McCleod aluminum street twin clutch, Tilton Super starter, & more. Planned, Crower shaft rocker setup in the 17-4 S/S version, Edelbrock LT4 intake, a new T56 rated at around 800 lb/ft., still researching from who to source that. Goal is 530 HP on gas-station 93 alka-swill. Normally Aspirated. To my way of thinking, The biggest limiting factor in the LT1/4 universe is the void in the aftermarket for a good stout replacement cylinder case. And I mean GOOD, like a GM bow tie or Dart little M at least. I keep having haunting doubts because I was originally going to do an LQ9 short block stroked & something along the lines of a LS3 head, but worked. Then I reminded myself of how much time it takes to sort out all the custom fiddling to get A/C, power steering pump-lines & cooler rigged, cruise control, exhaust, man the list GOES ON, & I like EVERY THING to WORK better than OEM for reliability. and clean, neat, safe, pretty. In short, I want my cake and eat it too. Unlike your project, mine is NOT a race car. Without these restraints, YOU may want to reconsider using something like the LQ9 truck bottom end and late rectangular port Escalade heads. They are becoming more plentiful in the yards, and the block is stronger than the LT1/4 series IMHO. Overall, LS brings superior architecture to higher power production goals. Your feed back eagerly anticipated.
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MASShole9C1



Posts: 3762
Join date: 2009-12-15
Age: 27
Location: We must not compromise territorial range

PostSubject: Re: 1,000hp LT1 Build   Thu Nov 25, 2010 3:48 am

Machine-De-Zine wrote:
Prepare for a LONG night. Check out what they are doing at Advanced Induction Cylinder Head Development (AI) . . . http://www.advancedinduction.com/AiProducts.html . . . and, Ellwein (Karl) . . . http://www.ellweinengines.com/ . . . Spend as much time as required here, and believe me, I spent ridiculous time here @ Ellwein looking at the various LT1+4 combinations being done RIGHT! I am probably going to get AFR LT4 210s and work with the master himself, Henry Kunz. My parts accumulation for the 396 LT is starting to come along. I sonic checked the block with the BHJ tester & it was good, Weston Machine 4 bolt main conversion, bronze lifter bore installation, new Morel lifters, Callies 3.875" crank, $1,700.00 in new GM parts for the clean install (brackets, hoses, & other OEM stuff), complete clutch/brake pedal assy for the F2Bkit coming soon, McCleod aluminum street twin clutch, Tilton Super starter, & more. Planned, Crower shaft rocker setup in the 17-4 S/S version, Edelbrock LT4 intake, a new T56 rated at around 800 lb/ft., still researching from who to source that. Goal is 530 HP on gas-station 93 alka-swill. Normally Aspirated. To my way of thinking, The biggest limiting factor in the LT1/4 universe is the void in the aftermarket for a good stout replacement cylinder case. And I mean GOOD, like a GM bow tie or Dart little M at least. I keep having haunting doubts because I was originally going to do an LQ9 short block stroked & something along the lines of a LS3 head, but worked. Then I reminded myself of how much time it takes to sort out all the custom fiddling to get A/C, power steering pump-lines & cooler rigged, cruise control, exhaust, man the list GOES ON, & I like EVERY THING to WORK better than OEM for reliability. and clean, neat, safe, pretty. In short, I want my cake and eat it too. Unlike your project, mine is NOT a race car. Without these restraints, YOU may want to reconsider using something like the LQ9 truck bottom end and late rectangular port Escalade heads. They are becoming more plentiful in the yards, and the block is stronger than the LT1/4 series IMHO. Overall, LS brings superior architecture to higher power production goals. Your feed back eagerly anticipated.

Welcome aboard. Jeez, from the sound of it, you must be a machinist. A damn good one from what Ive been reading. You sound like one of my instructors up at UTI.
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toomanytoyz
Club President


Posts: 6606
Join date: 2009-01-20
Age: 38
Location: East Hampstead, NH USA

PostSubject: Re: 1,000hp LT1 Build   Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:36 am

I'd wish you luck in the build, but you're gonna move onto something else before you finish this anyways... Wink

_________________
Bill "The Verb" Crovo - Resident Car Slut

A Toasted Marshmallow, A BADASS truck, a unicorn and giant pit to throw money into...
Missing all my previous B's, D's and V... Sad
American Ricer
www.badassofne.net
"Ooooh! Look! Something shiny!"

LOWER IT!!! Wink
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bfurches



Posts: 1057
Join date: 2010-04-20
Age: 27
Location: Springfield, MA

PostSubject: Re: 1,000hp LT1 Build   Thu Nov 25, 2010 5:24 am

toomanytoyz wrote:
I'd wish you luck in the build, but you're gonna move onto something else before you finish this anyways... Wink

...Normally I would say you are right...but I already have too much time and money invested into this effort lol. Not to mention, I have a personal grudge I plan on settling this season.

Machine-De-Zine wrote:
Prepare for a LONG night. Check out what they are doing at Advanced Induction Cylinder Head Development (AI) . . . http://www.advancedinduction.com/AiProducts.html . . . and, Ellwein (Karl) . . . http://www.ellweinengines.com/ . . . Spend as much time as required here, and believe me, I spent ridiculous time here @ Ellwein looking at the various LT1+4 combinations being done RIGHT! I am probably going to get AFR LT4 210s and work with the master himself, Henry Kunz. My parts accumulation for the 396 LT is starting to come along. I sonic checked the block with the BHJ tester & it was good, Weston Machine 4 bolt main conversion, bronze lifter bore installation, new Morel lifters, Callies 3.875" crank, $1,700.00 in new GM parts for the clean install (brackets, hoses, & other OEM stuff), complete clutch/brake pedal assy for the F2Bkit coming soon, McCleod aluminum street twin clutch, Tilton Super starter, & more. Planned, Crower shaft rocker setup in the 17-4 S/S version, Edelbrock LT4 intake, a new T56 rated at around 800 lb/ft., still researching from who to source that. Goal is 530 HP on gas-station 93 alka-swill. Normally Aspirated. To my way of thinking, The biggest limiting factor in the LT1/4 universe is the void in the aftermarket for a good stout replacement cylinder case. And I mean GOOD, like a GM bow tie or Dart little M at least. I keep having haunting doubts because I was originally going to do an LQ9 short block stroked & something along the lines of a LS3 head, but worked. Then I reminded myself of how much time it takes to sort out all the custom fiddling to get A/C, power steering pump-lines & cooler rigged, cruise control, exhaust, man the list GOES ON, & I like EVERY THING to WORK better than OEM for reliability. and clean, neat, safe, pretty. In short, I want my cake and eat it too. Unlike your project, mine is NOT a race car. Without these restraints, YOU may want to reconsider using something like the LQ9 truck bottom end and late rectangular port Escalade heads. They are becoming more plentiful in the yards, and the block is stronger than the LT1/4 series IMHO. Overall, LS brings superior architecture to higher power production goals. Your feed back eagerly anticipated.

As usual, you have brought up some excellent points, and your build sounds like it will be quite phenomenal when complete.

My reasoning behind not building an LQ9 or other LSx series engine is primarily based on the price factor. While they are still coming down in price significantly, you are still going to pay substantially more in comparison to an LTx motor. The architectural structure of the LSx based engine certainly deserves some praise, and it is an amazing design, however I can not bring myself to fork over the initial price tag for a core, not to mention the price difference and availability in the aftermarket aspect of things.

Another good point you have brought up is the inherent weakness of the block. It is only my opinion, but I feel that the LTx line of engines had received a bad wrap more then less from improper tune-ups, also known as etonation. In other words, I strongly believe if a block is prepped, inspected, and assembled with care and quality parts, there should be no reason it can not withstand high horsepower applications. I plan on beefing this block up with a set of splayed 4 bolt main caps, and a slightly less then "half-fill," in an effort to keep this engine street friendly. This is a combination that has been proven repeatedly in high boost power plants (obviously there is much more to the combination, but these are two of the biggest lower end modifications worth mentioning for block rigidity). I agree, there is a huge neglect in the aftermarket to address this problem, but for the power levels I am looking to obtain, I feel I can do this comfortably on a stock block.

There is some amazing info on the two links you posted. Advanced Induction has really had there stuff together for quite some time, and I am a huge fan. I had never heard of Ellwein, but was very impressed with there combination. Again, one reason I am going to stick the LT1 castings is because of cost, and I am a boosted application. With correct valve sizing and port work, these heads should be able to flow 250cfm on a 175ish runner. That is pretty close in comparison to most SBC bolt on heads. This also goes back to the LSx comparison, with valvetrain components being priced significantly less.

I guess basically, If I wanted to make an all out monster and break the bank...then yes, no doubt LSx would be the way to go (or expensive aftermarket sbc block). But I am more then less trying to show the community a way of putting together a budget oriented LTx that can be duplicated reasonably. The deck is certainly stacked, but there are ways around that Wink

Happy Turkey Day to all!
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Machine-De-Zine



Posts: 508
Join date: 2010-11-16
Age: 57
Location: Wrentham

PostSubject: Re: 1,000hp LT1 Build   Thu Nov 25, 2010 9:51 am

bfurches wrote:
toomanytoyz wrote:
I'd wish you luck in the build, but you're gonna move onto something else before you finish this anyways... Wink

...Normally I would say you are right...but I already have too much time and money invested into this effort lol. Not to mention, I have a personal grudge I plan on settling this season.

Machine-De-Zine wrote:
Prepare for a LONG night. Check out what they are doing at Advanced Induction Cylinder Head Development (AI) . . . http://www.advancedinduction.com/AiProducts.html . . . and, Ellwein (Karl) . . . http://www.ellweinengines.com/ . . . Spend as much time as required here, and believe me, I spent ridiculous time here @ Ellwein looking at the various LT1+4 combinations being done RIGHT! I am probably going to get AFR LT4 210s and work with the master himself, Henry Kunz. My parts accumulation for the 396 LT is starting to come along. I sonic checked the block with the BHJ tester & it was good, Weston Machine 4 bolt main conversion, bronze lifter bore installation, new Morel lifters, Callies 3.875" crank, $1,700.00 in new GM parts for the clean install (brackets, hoses, & other OEM stuff), complete clutch/brake pedal assy for the F2Bkit coming soon, McCleod aluminum street twin clutch, Tilton Super starter, & more. Planned, Crower shaft rocker setup in the 17-4 S/S version, Edelbrock LT4 intake, a new T56 rated at around 800 lb/ft., still researching from who to source that. Goal is 530 HP on gas-station 93 alka-swill. Normally Aspirated. To my way of thinking, The biggest limiting factor in the LT1/4 universe is the void in the aftermarket for a good stout replacement cylinder case. And I mean GOOD, like a GM bow tie or Dart little M at least. I keep having haunting doubts because I was originally going to do an LQ9 short block stroked & something along the lines of a LS3 head, but worked. Then I reminded myself of how much time it takes to sort out all the custom fiddling to get A/C, power steering pump-lines & cooler rigged, cruise control, exhaust, man the list GOES ON, & I like EVERY THING to WORK better than OEM for reliability. and clean, neat, safe, pretty. In short, I want my cake and eat it too. Unlike your project, mine is NOT a race car. Without these restraints, YOU may want to reconsider using something like the LQ9 truck bottom end and late rectangular port Escalade heads. They are becoming more plentiful in the yards, and the block is stronger than the LT1/4 series IMHO. Overall, LS brings superior architecture to higher power production goals. Your feed back eagerly anticipated.

As usual, you have brought up some excellent points, and your build sounds like it will be quite phenomenal when complete.

My reasoning behind not building an LQ9 or other LSx series engine is primarily based on the price factor. While they are still coming down in price significantly, you are still going to pay substantially more in comparison to an LTx motor. The architectural structure of the LSx based engine certainly deserves some praise, and it is an amazing design, however I can not bring myself to fork over the initial price tag for a core, not to mention the price difference and availability in the aftermarket aspect of things.

Another good point you have brought up is the inherent weakness of the block. It is only my opinion, but I feel that the LTx line of engines had received a bad wrap more then less from improper tune-ups, also known as etonation. In other words, I strongly believe if a block is prepped, inspected, and assembled with care and quality parts, there should be no reason it can not withstand high horsepower applications. I plan on beefing this block up with a set of splayed 4 bolt main caps, and a slightly less then "half-fill," in an effort to keep this engine street friendly. This is a combination that has been proven repeatedly in high boost power plants (obviously there is much more to the combination, but these are two of the biggest lower end modifications worth mentioning for block rigidity). I agree, there is a huge neglect in the aftermarket to address this problem, but for the power levels I am looking to obtain, I feel I can do this comfortably on a stock block.

There is some amazing info on the two links you posted. Advanced Induction has really had there stuff together for quite some time, and I am a huge fan. I had never heard of Ellwein, but was very impressed with there combination. Again, one reason I am going to stick the LT1 castings is because of cost, and I am a boosted application. With correct valve sizing and port work, these heads should be able to flow 250cfm on a 175ish runner. That is pretty close in comparison to most SBC bolt on heads. This also goes back to the LSx comparison, with valvetrain components being priced significantly less.

I guess basically, If I wanted to make an all out monster and break the bank...then yes, no doubt LSx would be the way to go (or expensive aftermarket sbc block). But I am more then less trying to show the community a way of putting together a budget oriented LTx that can be duplicated reasonably. The deck is certainly stacked, but there are ways around that Wink

Happy Turkey Day to all!
I understand your point of view, but still I am sure you will be pleasantly surprised after doing a fairly comprehensive comparative analysis between two 1000 HP builds, (1) LT1/4 and then, (2) LS family. TOTALLY different story if your looking to make only 440 HP and expect it to stay together. Also, the ignition system you refer to IS the native system on late LS family engines. Besides, this exploration will cost you nothing in parts OR machine shop labor! As you approach higher HP levels, the required investment in the LT1/4 direction spirals ever upward. The ceiling is naturally lower in LT-series, therefore, the ultimate power potential is not the same. (Remember, as more & more power is produced, at some point stuff explodes). After a REAL world investigation, you will be more informed & be able to decide. I would make two complete hypothetical build plan sheets, side by side, and be careful not to stack the deck prejudicially in favor of your pre-chosen result. I only say these things because this is my chosen career and passion. I see these "what to build" choices being made (and their repercussions) year after year. We build ALL these different things and I see the job-sheets, the final bills, and occasionally, the pick-up truck backing up to the shop door with oil/anti-freeze leaking out of the tail-gait. I get to take apart all these poorly conceived projects and figure out exactly what went so horribly wrong. Of course you can make 1000 HP in the LT1/4 architecture, but it gets very expensive to do it reliably. Just give Karl Ellwein a phone call and see what he charges for a 1000 HP LT4. You can also buy race or street headers and motor mounts to bolt the LS(?) into the B-Body. . . http://www.impalassforum.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?t=228454 . . . http://www.hotrodlane.cc/lscappricemounts.html . . from . . http://www.hotrodlane.cc/ . I put these thoughts out there because we, as friendly cooperative car enthusiasts, can raise the bar for each other and learn from each others mistakes as well as successes. Some people will "dig in their heels" and argue with their best buddies about Ford vs Chevy vs Mopar, well I don't care, as long as its fun and preferably AMERICAN IRON! and on that note, , HAPPY THANKS-GIVING to ALL!
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bfurches



Posts: 1057
Join date: 2010-04-20
Age: 27
Location: Springfield, MA

PostSubject: Re: 1,000hp LT1 Build   Thu Nov 25, 2010 3:07 pm

Machine-De-Zine wrote:
I understand your point of view, but still I am sure you will be pleasantly surprised after doing a fairly comprehensive comparative analysis between two 1000 HP builds, (1) LT1/4 and then, (2) LS family. TOTALLY different story if your looking to make only 440 HP and expect it to stay together. Also, the ignition system you refer to IS the native system on late LS family engines. Besides, this exploration will cost you nothing in parts OR machine shop labor! As you approach higher HP levels, the required investment in the LT1/4 direction spirals ever upward. The ceiling is naturally lower in LT-series, therefore, the ultimate power potential is not the same. (Remember, as more & more power is produced, at some point stuff explodes). After a REAL world investigation, you will be more informed & be able to decide. I would make two complete hypothetical build plan sheets, side by side, and be careful not to stack the deck prejudicially in favor of your pre-chosen result. I only say these things because this is my chosen career and passion. I see these "what to build" choices being made (and their repercussions) year after year. We build ALL these different things and I see the job-sheets, the final bills, and occasionally, the pick-up truck backing up to the shop door with oil/anti-freeze leaking out of the tail-gait. I get to take apart all these poorly conceived projects and figure out exactly what went so horribly wrong. Of course you can make 1000 HP in the LT1/4 architecture, but it gets very expensive to do it reliably. Just give Karl Ellwein a phone call and see what he charges for a 1000 HP LT4. You can also buy race or street headers and motor mounts to bolt the LS(?) into the B-Body. . . http://www.impalassforum.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?t=228454 . . . http://www.hotrodlane.cc/lscappricemounts.html . . from . . http://www.hotrodlane.cc/ . I put these thoughts out there because we, as friendly cooperative car enthusiasts, can raise the bar for each other and learn from each others mistakes as well as successes. Some people will "dig in their heels" and argue with their best buddies about Ford vs Chevy vs Mopar, well I don't care, as long as its fun and preferably AMERICAN IRON! and on that note, , HAPPY THANKS-GIVING to ALL!

I absolutely understand where you are coming from, and I have considered both options heavily. Hence why I currently own two complete 5.3 LSx based engines. Originally I planned on building one of these mills, but the cost was significantly more then what I need to spend on the LTx motor. All this will come into much clearer light as the build progresses and prices are presented. I am not comfortable explaining everything just yet, as I prefer to present the project in stages. You make some excellent points, and if I anticipated making 1500-2000hp, then the LT would be out of the question all together. Please don't take this as me dismissing your opinion, because that certainly is not the case. I am not saying that this is the solution for everyone, but I feel this thread will be a good stepping stone for the enthusiast who plans on a similar build with the oem power-plant.

p.s. check your pm's. I responded a few days ago Smile

With that being said, let's discuss the cylinder heads.

LT1 Cylinder Heads

The LT1 cylinder heads are some of the best production aluminum castings GM ever produced out of the gen1/2 family engines. As the link on the first post provides, flow numbers are above 200cfm out of the box, and closely rival the numbers of the infamous "bow tie" cylinder heads. A quick search on google will yield a ton of flow numbers for various valve configurations and levels of port- work for these cylinder heads. There is plenty of documentation showing flow numbers in the 250-270cfm range from an OEM casting and mild porting. That is some really big flow when you consider that aftermarket performance heads costing over 1,200-2,000.00 a pair have comparable and in some cases less flow. I consider these a great starting point for a project like this. Considering that this motor is going to be a turbo application, I am not relying on huge efficiency to make power. In other words, as long as the cylinder heads don't become a restriction, I can allow the turbo to do it's job and provide the air to the motor. For far less then the price of an aftermarket cylinder head package, I can build a set from oem castings and keep cost down, still having ample amounts of flow to reach my horsepower goals. Are there better flowing options available? Of course! These aftermarket options would most likely shine brightest on a naturally aspirated engine, but I don't believe the gains would be significant enough on my boosted motor to justify the additional costs. These cylinder heads can be obtained very cheap. In my case, I paid 125.00 for a complete set of the desirable "374" castings. These castings offer slightly more meat for machining and port work.

Here are a few quick snaps of the oem LT1 castings with the valves, springs, rockers and studs removed. The heads are still pretty dirty, but you get the idea before they go out for machining, and they will allow me to point out a few key items.






This next set of photos shows the LT1 casting in comparison to the L98 SBC castings off a corvette. I did this to ilustrate some of the similarities and differences between the two. You will notice, bot sets of heads utilize the same port placement, combustion chamber configuration/ spacing, and even valvetrain layout. You should also notice the LT1 castings do not have provisions for coolant to pass through to the intake manifold like the standard SBC has. The exhaust port shape has also been updated on the LT1 castings in an attempt to draw exhaust out of the cylinders. Another difference is while the bolt patteren for the intake manifolds are the same, the angles of the bolts are different (illustrated with a bolt in each cylinder head casting on the last image).





The similarities yield some great cheap interchanges. Since both cylinder head designs utilize the same deck bolt configuration, pattern and height, standard SBC head fasteners can be used. In my case since I plan on experincing some very high cylinder pressure under boost, I chose to utilize ARP head stud fasteners. By utilizing studs, you can achieve a significantly stronger clamping force on the cylinder heads. I chose ARP part number 134-4001 which retail for roughly 150.00, but with a little shopping around I acquired my set for 100.00.




The fact that both cylinder head designs use the same valvetrain layout is also great for aftermarket options. The LT1 castings share the screw-in style rocker stud which allows 7/16" studs to be easily installed with no modifications. If I really wanted to go crazy, I could purchase a shaft-mount setup for any standard 23* SBC head, however good ARP studs and a quality roller rocker and girdle package will be plenty reliable. SBC 7/16" roller rockers can be had anywhere from 200-350.00 for a very high quality package.

Valve spring selection and aftermarket valve availabillity for machining and porting are practically endless. My application will use quality stainless steel valves to keep up with the heat and abuse of a turbo motor. Specific sizing has not yet been layed out as I am waiting on my cylinder head machinist, but as soon as I have the part numbers and information, I will edit the post to keep all the info pertaining to the heads contained in one spot for easy reference.

The intake manifold bolt pattern is the same, however the actual bolt angle differs between traditional SBC heads. Typically (vortec heads being the exception), SBC head utilize a bolt angle of nearly 90* off the flat surface of the intake flanges, however LTx heads use a very slight upward angle. In other words, a traditional sbc intake manifold can not simply bolt onto an LTx head without modifications (and of course the thermostat housing/ water ports would be rendered useless since there are no provisions in the LTx heads).

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Machine-De-Zine



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PostSubject: Re: 1,000hp LT1 Build   Fri Nov 26, 2010 3:06 am

As you have probably guessed, my purpose here is to instigate a flurry of brainstorming in your process. You're going to build what you're going to build, and I pray, enjoy the journey. I always liked having other thinkers "bring it" during MY power-plant decision making steps as it forces me to think outside of my comfort zone. I live for those moments of revelation when somebody's compelling argument successfully displaces some idea that I had previously thought unshakable. I assume you already know that there is only so much rigidity/thickness behind the stock "374" aluminum cylinder head deck surface to contain THAT much turbo boosted cylinder pressure. And, obviously you know that O-ringing at the head gasket mating surface is mandatory, but did you ignore the inevitable comparison between stock non-ported L92 heads and the very best ported "374"s, particularly in the exhaust port which is so important to turbo apps. It's not a monumental feat to produce from stock LQ9 short-block/L92 headed combos near 600 normally aspirated HP, and double that with a properly set up power adder. Check on the price of new L92 heads and late model truck 6.0 LQ9 10.1 CR salvage motors, , , together, probably less than the cash you would get from the eBay sale of your two LM4 / LY5 / L59 or whatever those 5.3s are that you already own. If my playing the "devil's advocate" here is getting past your sense of joyful exploration of possibilities, then just tell me to back off, and I will cease and desist. Some others may be reading our discussion and, because I am certainly no genius myself, have considerably more valuable inputs to contribute than what I have "brought". In case you thought that I doubted the soundness of logic in your proposed engine build, I DO take the time to examine and research the ideas you have presented on this forum and contemplate carefully the validity therein. BTW, Did you look at the very beautifully photo documented builds in the Ellwein site? On the left side , click any/all of the engine build #s and scroll thru each set while clicking on the many small photos for large hi-res images. I imagine your LTx engine will likely have the same con-rods as one of the several choices he has employed, such as Crower, Oliver, Callies, cp-Carrillo, Etc.
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No Moa



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PostSubject: Re: 1,000hp LT1 Build   Fri Nov 26, 2010 3:30 am

LQ9s are not that easy to come by, I've tryed to find a good one, as i really wanted to do one up. LQ4 i can buy those all day long for $500. But my Salvage guy said he hasn't had a caddy with the LQ9 in awhile.

I really wanted to follow in Dougs footsteps for the LS motor, but seem like to much work.

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Machine-De-Zine



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PostSubject: Re: 1,000hp LT1 Build   Fri Nov 26, 2010 5:13 am

No Moa wrote:
LQ9s are not that easy to come by, I've tryed to find a good one, as i really wanted to do one up. LQ4 i can buy those all day long for $500. But my Salvage guy said he hasn't had a caddy with the LQ9 in awhile.

I really wanted to follow in Dougs footsteps for the LS motor, but seem like to much work.

No problem, the only difference between the two is the compression. 10.1 vs 9.4 and although I can't remember for sure, piston negative volume is the only diff. most of the best aftermarket heads are available in very small chamber volumes anyway. I plan on doing some checking further. The L92 volume is 68.4cc. Another good option is just look for the LY6 / 6.0L out of 2007 & up NBS Silverado/Sierra. Those heavy trucks are not immune to roll-overs, (totaled-ins.) Has iron block with L92 heads & piston to valve solved, although I would definitely be changing the rods, crank & pistons for 1,000 HP! Callies dragon slayer & comparable P&Rs for a reliable rotator. The block is around $750 and the heads $800 = both bare block and two complete heads new. Over 300 CFM @ 28"H2o! Thats better than decent rect port BBCs! I would try to remember that total cost should only get tallied-up AFTER all the running around for nuisance finish-up chores are completed. It's so easy to get lured into a game plan that includes some part you got cheap or free & then chase a convoluted combination of eventually more expensive other parts and wasted time to make it all happen. LQ9s are not easy to find, but not impossible either. LQ4s are perfect if you are using only the bare block anyway, and with an aftermarket crank comes more cubes! Diligence rewards the patient man. Thoughts anyone?
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toomanytoyz
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PostSubject: Re: 1,000hp LT1 Build   Fri Nov 26, 2010 7:22 am

Machine-De-Zine wrote:
Thoughts anyone?

Yeah. I'm glad you weren't around when I was making this decision not too long ago. Wink I stuck with my LT1 because I had a killer set of heads and scored forged internals cheap.

But for the Caddy? An LQ4/T56 is not out of the question... Down the road. Wink Jerk. Very Happy

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bfurches



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PostSubject: Re: 1,000hp LT1 Build   Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:52 am

Machine-De-Zine wrote:
As you have probably guessed, my purpose here is to instigate a flurry of brainstorming in your process. You're going to build what you're going to build, and I pray, enjoy the journey. I always liked having other thinkers "bring it" during MY power-plant decision making steps as it forces me to think outside of my comfort zone. I live for those moments of revelation when somebody's compelling argument successfully displaces some idea that I had previously thought unshakable. I assume you already know that there is only so much rigidity/thickness behind the stock "374" aluminum cylinder head deck surface to contain THAT much turbo boosted cylinder pressure. And, obviously you know that O-ringing at the head gasket mating surface is mandatory, but did you ignore the inevitable comparison between stock non-ported L92 heads and the very best ported "374"s, particularly in the exhaust port which is so important to turbo apps. It's not a monumental feat to produce from stock LQ9 short-block/L92 headed combos near 600 normally aspirated HP, and double that with a properly set up power adder. Check on the price of new L92 heads and late model truck 6.0 LQ9 10.1 CR salvage motors, , , together, probably less than the cash you would get from the eBay sale of your two LM4 / LY5 / L59 or whatever those 5.3s are that you already own. If my playing the "devil's advocate" here is getting past your sense of joyful exploration of possibilities, then just tell me to back off, and I will cease and desist. Some others may be reading our discussion and, because I am certainly no genius myself, have considerably more valuable inputs to contribute than what I have "brought". In case you thought that I doubted the soundness of logic in your proposed engine build, I DO take the time to examine and research the ideas you have presented on this forum and contemplate carefully the validity therein. BTW, Did you look at the very beautifully photo documented builds in the Ellwein site? On the left side , click any/all of the engine build #s and scroll thru each set while clicking on the many small photos for large hi-res images. I imagine your LTx engine will likely have the same con-rods as one of the several choices he has employed, such as Crower, Oliver, Callies, cp-Carrillo, Etc.

I have no problem with you posting your opinion. It's great to have educated debate, and is exactly what these boards are built on. The only thing I would like to ask, is maybe we could start another thread for debate and info on LSx vs LTx, that way this thread can continue to concentrate on an LTx related build and not an LSx debate. However, I certainly like the idea of a thread showing the pros and cons of an LTx build vs an LSx build. I am not partial to either combination, it just so happens the LT powertrain is what I decided to use for this application. Does that make it a better choice then some of the other available options? Absolutely not.

To answer some of your questions, I am holding back specific details at the moment about the lower end only because they are up in the air, but I can assure you the crank/ rod combination will be of higher end quality (rods are a toss between Callies and Crowers, crank is most likely going to be a billet crower piece).

As for the cylinder heads, I did not realize o-ringing the block would be mandatory, and I will be sure to research that further. It was my understanding that with a good head gasket (mls cometic), and quality stud fasteners that there would be no problem. Regardless, thank you for bringing that potential hazard to light so I can research. I'm not sure how many high hp boosted LSx motors you have seen, but the biggest issue I have seen documented is the fact that the heads like to walk around 1000hp. It appears that having less head bolts then a standard sbc has caused this problem, and I believe the aftermarket has addressed the issue with cylinder heads which use 6 bolts per head (but obviously will require machining/ drilling of the deck surface), but obviously this stacks substantial cost to a reliable build.

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Cadet57



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PostSubject: Re: 1,000hp LT1 Build   Fri Nov 26, 2010 11:13 am

toomanytoyz wrote:


But for the Caddy? An LQ4/T56 is not out of the question... Down the road. Wink Jerk. Very Happy

Unless you sell it first Wink
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Machine-De-Zine



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PostSubject: Re: 1,000hp LT1 Build   Fri Nov 26, 2010 1:48 pm

.


As for the cylinder heads, I did not realize o-ringing the block would be mandatory, and I will be sure to research that further. It was my understanding that with a good head gasket (mls cometic), and quality stud fasteners that there would be no problem. Regardless, thank you for bringing that potential hazard to light so I can research. I'm not sure how many high hp boosted LSx motors you have seen, but the biggest issue I have seen documented is the fact that the heads like to walk around 1000hp. It appears that having less head bolts then a standard sbc has caused this problem, and I believe the aftermarket has addressed the issue with cylinder heads which use 6 bolts per head (but obviously will require machining/ drilling of the deck surface), but obviously this stacks substantial cost to a reliable build.

[/quote] If your possibilities include billet a Crower crank, an LSX block with a pair of "six bolts per cyl" heads then I admit I underestimated the budget you had in mind. . . . Look at the locations of those two extra bolts in the following photos, special head = special block. Give this PDF a little time to load. . . . http://www.gmperformanceparts.com/_res/pdf/MagazineArticles/PontiacEnthusiast_LSXBlockReview.pdf . . . and . . . http://sdparts.com/details/gm-performance-parts/19244611 . . . Also of note, and to follow your suggestion of sticking to LT(1or4) topic discussions, you gotta check out this eye opening answer to pushing the upper limits of LT1/4 potential. . . . http://ls1tech.com/forums/lt1-lt4-modifications/306663-aluminum-lt1-block.html . . . When I dream up ways to make killer power I usually run into the first and only REAL brickwall, COST. Research is "relatively free" for me because I find doing it so very enjoyable. But where the tire hits the road in such projects, someone has to face the parts & labor cost hurdle. We have in our shop, as many machine shops have as well, a "Wall of Horrors". Some choice internal engine part/s hangs there, usually mangled beyond recognition, like a carefully massaged stock steel con-rod twisted 300 deg on axis with what must have once been a forged piston and a roughly 4 inch section of nodular cast iron crankshaft still attached, also a complete dismembered whole main bulkhead, main cap still mounted on it's ARP stud kit, rotating on a perfect 0.0022" oil clearance! Had there been better vision in the planning stages and safe implementation of the building and usage of these engines, with an appropriate budget, these "horrors" wouldn't happen. A customer says he wants to build a stock block hot rod for his pump gas street car but needs to keep the costs down. He gets it into his car & some "buddy" of his says his fresh new high performance engine would double its power with an aggressive NoS plate system. But while he is anxious to try it out out on the open road, he can't resist the urge to "show off" to his "less informed than himself" other buddies, so in his garage he gives it a FULL single stage nitrous shot at idle to amaze the onlookers how it SHRIEKS to red-line! . . . Ka-BOOOM!
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V8Killer



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PostSubject: Re: 1,000hp LT1 Build   Fri Nov 26, 2010 3:07 pm

Machine-De-Zine wrote:
No Moa wrote:
LQ9s are not that easy to come by, I've tryed to find a good one, as i really wanted to do one up. LQ4 i can buy those all day long for $500. But my Salvage guy said he hasn't had a caddy with the LQ9 in awhile.

I really wanted to follow in Dougs footsteps for the LS motor, but seem like to much work.

No problem, the only difference between the two is the compression. 10.1 vs 9.4 and although I can't remember for sure, piston negative volume is the only diff. most of the best aftermarket heads are available in very small chamber volumes anyway. I plan on doing some checking further. The L92 volume is 68.4cc. Another good option is just look for the LY6 / 6.0L out of 2007 & up NBS Silverado/Sierra. Those heavy trucks are not immune to roll-overs, (totaled-ins.) Has iron block with L92 heads & piston to valve solved, although I would definitely be changing the rods, crank & pistons for 1,000 HP! Callies dragon slayer & comparable P&Rs for a reliable rotator. The block is around $750 and the heads $800 = both bare block and two complete heads new. Over 300 CFM @ 28"H2o! Thats better than decent rect port BBCs! I would try to remember that total cost should only get tallied-up AFTER all the running around for nuisance finish-up chores are completed. It's so easy to get lured into a game plan that includes some part you got cheap or free & then chase a convoluted combination of eventually more expensive other parts and wasted time to make it all happen. LQ9s are not easy to find, but not impossible either. LQ4s are perfect if you are using only the bare block anyway, and with an aftermarket crank comes more cubes! Diligence rewards the patient man. Thoughts anyone?

FYI, another BIG difference between the LQ4 & LQ9 are the connecting rods, LQ9's have a much better connecting rod. One of the first things you notice when you take one apart, although I am unsure of how much more punishment they will take.
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Machine-De-Zine



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PostSubject: Re: 1,000hp LT1 Build   Fri Nov 26, 2010 5:53 pm

Both are powdered metal, LQ9 has a floating wrist-pin, LQ4 pressed pin, but this was done to address a noise issue, 10HP/Trq diff, but it's academic anyway because no stock LS(?) rod will happily handle 1,000 HP. Possibly in the neighborhood of 600 HP for a time if no detonation takes them out. I doubt even the forged titanium 6.067" LS7 rods would live indefinitely. It sounds like B would appreciate if I stop pulling out the LS family card, so I am going to try to respect that. Nobody got up here and replied to my suggestion to look over the nicely photographed Karl Ellwein LT1/4 builds.


Last edited by Machine-De-Zine on Sat Nov 27, 2010 8:28 am; edited 1 time in total
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Machine-De-Zine



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PostSubject: Re: 1,000hp LT1 Build   Fri Nov 26, 2010 6:45 pm

No Moa wrote:
LQ9s are not that easy to come by, I've tryed to find a good one, as i really wanted to do one up. LQ4 i can buy those all day long for $500. But my Salvage guy said he hasn't had a caddy with the LQ9 in awhile.

I really wanted to follow in Dougs footsteps for the LS motor, but seem like to much work.

Definitely not a bad choice (LQ4), excellent in fact, even if used complete. Don't forget, LQ9s with gen III AL heads, also came in the heavier versions of light duty pick up trucks from 2002-2007, not just Mega-Luxo-Cadz. And, LQ4s from 1999-2001 with FE heads and 2002-2007 AL heads. Same FE blocks were on both thru all years. I recommend this compendium for LS type engine swapping research. . . . http://www.fbparts.com/ls_general_charts.htm


Last edited by Machine-De-Zine on Sat Nov 27, 2010 9:04 am; edited 1 time in total
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V8Killer



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PostSubject: Re: 1,000hp LT1 Build   Sat Nov 27, 2010 4:43 am

Machine-De-Zine wrote:
No Moa wrote:
LQ9s are not that easy to come by, I've tryed to find a good one, as i really wanted to do one up. LQ4 i can buy those all day long for $500. But my Salvage guy said he hasn't had a caddy with the LQ9 in awhile.

I really wanted to follow in Dougs footsteps for the LS motor, but seem like to much work.

Definitely not a bad choice (LQ4) even if used complete. Don't forget, LQ9s with gen III AL heads, also came in the heavier versions of light duty pick up trucks from 2002-2007, not just Mega-Luxo-Cadz. And, LQ4s from 1999-2001 with FE heads and 2002-2007 AL heads. Same FE blocks were on both thru all years.

No argument here LS motors rock, 6 bolt mains and heads flow like a s.o.b stock. My buddy built a 88 GMC 2wd p/u with a 5.3, Z06 cam & springs (the rest bone stock, throttle-body, intake, pistons & rods), good injectors, good fueling system, non-progressive alky kit, & a M/P T70 turbo. Made 468 HP, 505 ft lbs of torque with 12 lbs & 10 degrees timing AT THE WHEELS Shocked . Truck weighed 4,450 with him in it, & ran a 11.9 @ 121, crappy 2.0 60ft & no traction even with drag radials, oh and with 3.08 gears Rolling Eyes That run was 3 lbs more boost, same timing.......on pump gas, and was driven daily Twisted Evil
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bfurches



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PostSubject: Re: 1,000hp LT1 Build   Sat Nov 27, 2010 10:40 am

Machine-De-Zine wrote:
Both are powdered metal, LQ9 has a floating wrist-pin, LQ4 pressed pin, but this was done to address a noise issue, 10HP/Trq diff, but it's academic anyway because no stock LS(?) rod will happily handle 1,000 HP. Possibly in the neighborhood of 600 HP for a time if no detonation takes them out. I doubt even the forged titanium 6.067" LS7 rods would live indefinitely. It sounds like B would appreciate if I stop pulling out the LS family card, so I am going to try to respect that. Nobody got up here and replied to my suggestion to look over the nicely photographed Karl Ellwein LT1/4 builds.

Please don't take my suggestion the wrong way. I am not trying to be a Thread Nazi and say that ls motors are out of the discussion, I was simply suggesting another outlet we could all post our ideas and opinions. Either way, discussion and debate is fine with me.

As for the Karl Ellwein builds, while I do find his documentation very detailed and well photographed, I personally would not go to him for build information. While he seems very knowledgeable as far as clearances and tolerances are concerned...he is just an assembler. Maybe I am reading into his builds and misinterpreting the information...but it appears to me that he simply sources fully machined blocks and pre-assembled cylinder heads and put the packages together.

He clearly states that he gets his blocks from Golen (huge name in the lt1/4 community), so wouldn't it make much more sense to just cut out the middle man and go directly to them? I think what he is doing is cool for the at home DIY guy, and as you mentioned, his documentation of each motor is pretty good, but I guess I am missing the point.

Either way....quick update!

Turbo is on the way out to Turbo Resource in Arizona for some careful massaging and component installation. We are running a 76mm inducer on the compressor side designed to produce up to 1300hp (factoring in my motors projected specifications and compression).

My contact at Turbo Resource is Tom. He is an awesome guy to deal with and has a ton of industry experience. Not to mention...there pricing is AWESOME! To have a new wheel installed, compressor housing machined for the new wheel, and the entire assembly balanced, I am paying 250.00. Thats HALF of what a VERY reputable turbo company in Texas quoted me for the same exact job with comparable (if not the same) products!

I have also been working on the "budget built" turbo manifolds. More pictures to come this evening!
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bfurches



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PostSubject: Re: 1,000hp LT1 Build   Sat Nov 27, 2010 12:50 pm

Turbo Manifold

My turbo of choice for this application is a custom Garrett t6 flanged Unit. My particular setup will utilize a single turbo, and will require me to merge both banks of cylinders together. There are no readily available single turbo manifolds for the B-Body chassis that will accept and support a turbo of comparable weight and dimensions of mine. So now steps in the creativity...

I picked up a set of the ebay "twin turbo" headers for small block chevy applications. I actually scored these from a friend who had lost interest in his project, but regardless they can be had very cheap (about 100-150.00). For a cheaper product, they are actually constructed very well. They are made from stainless steel and use very thick 1/2" flanges (perfect for the high heat and abuse a turbo generates). Even the stainless tubing used for the runners and collector appear to be of 16-18 gauge which is pretty much industry standard. The internal area of the collector certainly can use some clean up, but overall the tig welds and construction look pretty good out of the box!



You will notice that these twin turbo headers are setup for just that..."TWIN" turbos, which means that there is no provision of the other bank of cylinder to merge into the turbos exhaust side inlet. These manifolds come setup to run a t3 flanged turbo on each bank of cylinders. The first bit of business on hand was to cut off the t3 flange and fab up a transition into which both banks of cylinders will flow.



With the flange cut off...you can kinda see the welding slag scattered throughout the collector that needed to be cleaned up. But nothing too bad. You will also notice that now with the flange gone, I am going to have to massage a piece of tubing to an almost rectangular shape to weld to the manifold...




My T6 flange will sit on "u" bend that I have added to the manifold. Also coming off the flange will be the crossover v-band pipe that will face forward. All this will make more sense in the next day or two as I get the manifold all tiged up, but for now this gives you a general idea. Everything is just tacked up at the moment...more photos to come.
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Machine-De-Zine



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PostSubject: Re: 1,000hp LT1 Build   Sat Nov 27, 2010 1:54 pm

[quote="bfurches"]
Machine-De-Zine wrote:


My contact at Turbo Resource is Tom. He is an awesome guy to deal with and has a ton of industry experience. Not to mention...there pricing is AWESOME! To have a new wheel installed, compressor housing machined for the new wheel, and the entire assembly balanced, I am paying 250.00. Thats HALF of what a VERY reputable turbo company in Texas quoted me for the same exact job with comparable (if not the same) products!

I have also been working on the "budget built" turbo manifolds. More pictures to come this evening!
Hey that's awesome. It does get harder all the time for quality shops to compete with each other while also struggling against the tsunami flood of imported products that have been manufactured at practically ZERO labor cost. If both turbo builds are the same (we hope!), it makes you wonder where the other $250 ends up. I have never owned or built (for myself, anyway) a turbo powered car, but this discussion here is likely to change all that for me. I interpreted the purpose of this thread to be an open & fair exchange of pre-building strategies. I mentioned K E only to offer up an opportunity to see how somebody who builds very successful LT1/4s at your proposed HP levels, has solved the parts choice and assembly processes, but not to suggest you buy one of his engines. I remember when Golen first moved to to Hudson NH several years ago. There is nothing wrong with his block preparation. Some of the best engine builders I know DO NOT do any machine work at all. They save a ton of overhead & liability by concentrating on what matters MOST to the customer, the final product. I see no difference in quality issues because a really good builder knows where to get the best machine work done and can tell the difference. For every builder that gets virtually ALL his builds to survive what comes after the customer puts these beasts to the challenge, there are 10 that miss the mark some or even most of the time. They must spend as much time playing the "blame game" as they do getting good work done. I can not stress strongly enough how absolutely critical it is to do what KE does correctly. One of the best builders I have ever known is VERY humble & worked out of half of a tiny little hair salon store front. I was afraid the floors were going to collapse! His bigger machines were in his home garage. He is very practical, thoughtful and thorough with every stage and step. He is an excellent machinist too, but conversely some of the best machinists I have ever known can't change a flat tire, never mind build a competitive race engine.. Go figure!
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Machine-De-Zine



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PostSubject: Re: 1,000hp LT1 Build   Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:03 pm

bfurches wrote:
Turbo Manifold

They are made from stainless steel and use very thick 1/2" flanges (perfect for the high heat and abuse a turbo generates). Even the stainless tubing used for the runners and collector appear to be of 16-18 gauge which is pretty much industry standard. The internal area of the collector certainly can use some clean up, but overall the tig welds and construction look pretty good out of the box!




.
Looks even heavier wall than that! Like maybe 14 Ga. Question #1), Are you doing this fit-up using your boxy engine bay? and then #2), I understand you want to do this install in a 91-96, correct?
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bfurches



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PostSubject: Re: 1,000hp LT1 Build   Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:18 pm

Machine-De-Zine wrote:
bfurches wrote:
Turbo Manifold

They are made from stainless steel and use very thick 1/2" flanges (perfect for the high heat and abuse a turbo generates). Even the stainless tubing used for the runners and collector appear to be of 16-18 gauge which is pretty much industry standard. The internal area of the collector certainly can use some clean up, but overall the tig welds and construction look pretty good out of the box!




.
Looks even heavier wall than that! Like maybe 14 Ga. Question #1), Are you doing this fit-up using your boxy engine bay? and then #2), I understand you want to do this install in a 91-96, correct?

#1- Yes, I am fabbing this up in the box caprice engine bay. Even though the motor currently i there is a standard sbc, the LTx will sit in the same exact location.

#2- No, the motor I am building is for the box caprice. I am looking for a 91-96 for a fun summer driver/ ECIRS competitor car.

Funny enough, If I don't unload my sbc soon, that drivetrain package from the box will probably end up in the 91-96 to make room for the new ltx powertrain in the box lol.
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Machine-De-Zine



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PostSubject: Re: 1,000hp LT1 Build   Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:43 pm

[quote="bfurches"][quote="Machine-De-Zine"]
bfurches wrote:
Turbo Manifold



Funny enough, If I don't unload my sbc soon, that drivetrain package from the box will probably end up in the 91-96 to make room for the new ltx powertrain in the box lol.
Man, there is nothing quite as cool as a brutally fast, slammed, sinister, four fat tired, stick shift boxy.
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bfurches



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PostSubject: Re: 1,000hp LT1 Build   Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:51 pm

[quote="Machine-De-Zine"][quote="bfurches"]
Machine-De-Zine wrote:
bfurches wrote:
Turbo Manifold



Funny enough, If I don't unload my sbc soon, that drivetrain package from the box will probably end up in the 91-96 to make room for the new ltx powertrain in the box lol.
Man, there is nothing quite as cool as a brutally fast, slammed, sinister, four fat tired, stick shift boxy.

I agree with everything but the stick shift part since im running a th400 lol.

Sinister....well....lets just say there is a nice flat/gloss black color combo going on the car for 2011 Twisted Evil
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Machine-De-Zine



Posts: 508
Join date: 2010-11-16
Age: 57
Location: Wrentham

PostSubject: Re: 1,000hp LT1 Build   Sun Nov 28, 2010 12:06 am

[quote="bfurches"][quote="Machine-De-Zine"]
bfurches wrote:
Machine-De-Zine wrote:
bfurches wrote:
Turbo Manifold



Funny enough, If I don't unload my sbc soon, that drivetrain package from the box will probably end up in the 91-96 to make room for the new ltx powertrain in the box lol.
Man, there is nothing quite as cool as a brutally fast, slammed, sinister, four fat tired, stick shift boxy.

I agree with everything but the stick shift part since im running a th400 lol.

Sinister....well....lets just say there is a nice flat/gloss black color combo going on the car for 2011 Twisted Evil
My curiosity has me ask, If this motor is going into a square car, why is this thread in the "91-96 B & D-body tech" category? And, yes I did read the introduction to this thread! But for the record, I truly DO like the TH-400, and I have built a few hard-core examples, some that shifted so savage that it would take your clothes off, but I don't find drag racing alone has enough by itself to meet my driving expectations. I don't know, it might be those drag specific torque converters with no engine braking for the fast approaching corners! That surely does not mean I can't get happy blowin' the doors off anybody & everybody that tries to get there first when the road straightens out. It makes me grateful for all of our differences. Maybe we can compromise with a beefed-up paddle-shift 4L80E. Apparently the 6L80Es are prone to intermediate shaft failures, although they make that piece in hardened billet 300M. Some compromise, huh! And lastly: Do you want to create a new thread for the upgraded rear-end your going to need if you ever hook all that power?
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Grumpy



Posts: 262
Join date: 2010-08-18

PostSubject: Re: 1,000hp LT1 Build   Sun Nov 28, 2010 1:59 am

Machine-De-Zine wrote:
And lastly: Do you want to create a new thread for the upgraded rear-end your going to need if you ever hook all that power?

and the driveshaft !!! Projects like this grows very fast !!! Even doin it on a "budget". 1000hp isn't goin to do well on the street unless your into "drifting" Laughing
Oh don't know if I missed reading it BUT what will the car weigh in it ??
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