BADASS of New England

An automobile club for the enthusiast who enjoys the last of the big GM cars. The rear wheel drive B and D bodys. Chevrolet Impala SS, Caprice, 9C1, Buick Roadmaster, Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser, Cadillac Fleetwood
 
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 Pass Key Light?

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Deputy347K9



Posts : 147
Join date : 2009-04-05
Location : Limington, Maine

PostSubject: Pass Key Light?   Tue Jul 27, 2010 9:01 pm

OK guys, put your thinking caps on and tackle this one. On Rin's (Iceman) Roadmaster he had the six speed convesion, of curse the steering column would have to be removed. The car is now showing a steady pass key fault light, car runs great, just that the light is on and stays on. Ron had told me he thought it was in the ECM but I learnt the ECM has nothing to do with the light staying on. I was told that one of the pesky little wires could have got damaged when removing all installing the column.

I have ZERO eletrical knowledge so directions would have to be very basic. Would like to be able to trace the problem and repair it, if that can't be done then would have to bypass the system with risistors. All most sound like I know something but don't let that fool you, I read some articles on the other forum.

Chime in with ideas, any one know of someone close by that I could pay to trouble shoot this and repair it? I know that's a long shot but what to hell.

Larry
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sdstick



Posts : 4278
Join date : 2009-03-20
Location : Revere, MA

PostSubject: Re: Pass Key Light?   Tue Jul 27, 2010 9:05 pm

Usually when the pass key light is on the car wont start.
Its the tiny pair of white wires running down the steering column


Uploaded with ImageShack.us
I have the remains of my bypass in a drawer of my toolbox
Here's the write-up


Procedure:

1. Use a voltmeter to reads the ohms from the chip in your key by placing one lead on one side and the other lead on other side of the chip.

2. After determining your ohmage, get resistor(s) that equal the ohmage you need.
Ex: Mine was 1.1 Kohm. So I got a 1 K resistor and a 100 ohm resistor.

3. If you only need one resistor, go on to step 4. If you need multiple resistors, tie the resistors together as a chain link. DO NOT lay them side by side and twist together. A little solder will help hold these together.

4. Unplug the harness (above) located under the steering column. Insert one end of the resistor chain into one hole of the [prpl/wht & blk/wht] harness leading to the module. Then plug the other end into the other hole. The snugness of these wires may not be sufficient so hold them in place with some electrical tape.

5. Insert you key and attempt to start your engine.

If it works: The car will crank and the Pass Key Fault LED will go out. So then cover the resistors with tape and do not allow them to touch each other w/ the exception of the solder spot. Zip-tie the wires out of the way so they won't get snagged by anything else. After you do this be sure it still works and that you haven’t altered anything in the process of cleaning up.

If it doesn’t work: The car will not crank and the Pass Key Fault LED will blink repeatedly or will stay on. If it blinks repeatedly, you are not getting a connection. Get a second hand to turn the key while you hold your resistors in place. Keep trying until it works or the LED at least stays on even though the car may not crank.

If it works, see above. If it doesn’t…..cry like a baby. Just kidding, it will be because your ohms are off. Be sure your voltmeter is working properly (if you have one with a needle, make sure it is set at 0 with your adjustment knob) and then double-check your ohmage from the chip in your key. Then repeat procedure.

*By chance, the car cranks but the LED stays on. It is because your ohms are slightly off. In other words, it is sensing that your key chip is losing its “luster” and that you need a new one but it’s going to crank anyways. You do not need a new key, but you do need to recheck your ohms and repeat the process.

Note: I went ahead and cut the 2 white wires and soldered in the resistors. It made for a perfect connection. BUT I made sure I had the correct ohmage and that it worked before I went ahead with it.

_________________
Steve


96BBB 28K 3.42 Bolt-ons
95BBB 100K 3.73 383 New DD...already broke fixt the 4L60E twice
95 Black WB4 Hole...ee...grail
96 Black WB4 No holes in this
95BBB 189K 3.08 Old DD Stolen...by Matt. Cool
Whine..eee...Silver LS6


Last edited by sdstick on Tue Jul 27, 2010 9:12 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Pass Key Light?   Tue Jul 27, 2010 9:06 pm

Larry
I am not sure how to fix the problem, but if he can, he could send the PCM and have PASS KEY turned off if not resolved.
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boojum



Posts : 2152
Join date : 2009-01-21
Age : 29
Location : NH

PostSubject: Re: Pass Key Light?   Tue Jul 27, 2010 9:24 pm

See the wiring diagrams at http://ss.lencolab.com/.

The TDM turns the light on. If he has it programmed out in the PCM then the key/pellet wiring or the TDM is bad.

I had it go bad on the Camaro, I bypassed it by grounding the yel/blk wire on the TDM relay. In the Camaro is tucked way up under the dash.

If the relay is already bypassed and it's programmed out of the PCM I'd just remove the bulb or cut the wire to it.
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bammax



Posts : 2301
Join date : 2009-02-22
Age : 35
Location : Mansfield, Ma

PostSubject: Re: Pass Key Light?   Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:11 pm

My experience with a pass-key fualt was that the fuse in the kickpanel for the pass-key was loose. I pulled it out, cleaned it off, then put it back in and never had another problem. It was the cheapest and easiest fix I ever had.
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No Moa



Posts : 3871
Join date : 2009-02-21
Age : 44
Location : Midcoast Maine

PostSubject: Re: Pass Key Light?   Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:24 am

Mines on all the time, car runs great.
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Deputy347K9



Posts : 147
Join date : 2009-04-05
Location : Limington, Maine

PostSubject: Re: Pass Key Light?   Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:14 pm

I am going high tech today! Went to radio shack and purchased a 15 range digital multi meter! Tested both keys to the Roadmaster, one read 1.86 while the other read 1.9. Now the closest I could get was two resistors, one being 1.5K and the other 470K = 1.97K. How close do you have to be? I am sure below 1.9 would be bad while over .07 might be OK?

Car is out for front end alingment so when it comes back I will try and locate the plug at the column and try this. What to hell do I have to loose, at least I have a new tool!

Larry
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cloud 9



Posts : 563
Join date : 2009-10-03
Age : 48
Location : Dover, NH

PostSubject: Re: Pass Key Light?   Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:11 pm

SDSTICK is correct. I already bypassed mine to put in a remote starter. It worked perfectly and now I can have a regular key made to start the car. I used a 1k and a 100 ohm and it worked. What a Face
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Deputy347K9



Posts : 147
Join date : 2009-04-05
Location : Limington, Maine

PostSubject: Re: Pass Key Light?   Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:57 pm

I will not be able to to complet this until the weekend. I am hoping this solves the problem. My only concern is how close does the resistors have to match the key, i.e. 1.86 on one key, 1.9 on the other and I am using two resistors that total just below 2.0. This evening I put the two resistors together and applied light solder for holding power.
This weekend I will SDStick advise, first locate the connection then try her out! Nothing to loose.

Thanks guys for the continued help.

Larry
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sdstick



Posts : 4278
Join date : 2009-03-20
Location : Revere, MA

PostSubject: Re: Pass Key Light?   Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:10 pm

Deputy347K9 wrote:
...........one read 1.86 while the other read 1.9.
That would be key blank #7
Design Resistance 1.870
Min Resistance 1.795
Max Resistance 1.965

Deputy347K9 wrote:
...........Now the closest I could get was two resistors, one being 1.5K and the other 470K = 1.97K. How close do you have to be?
Between 1.795 & 1.965 (your .005 over lol it may work but I'd try to drop lower)
When my key was .005 below min design resistance my car went intermittent
Larry you can use 3 (or more) in series to get your number
(1K + 470 + 470= 1.940k)

Deputy347K9 wrote:
........... I will try and locate the plug at the column and try this.
Once you shoehorn yourself under the dash it's pretty easy
You'll see these tiny white wires in the orange sleeve
PLEASE dont cut anything until you test the circuit to make sure it works

cloud 9 wrote:
SDSTICK is correct. I already bypassed mine to put in a remote starter. It worked perfectly and now I can have a regular key made to start the car. I used a 1k and a 100 ohm and it worked. What a Face

If you used the 1100 ohms based on the example I gave PLEASE go play the lottery.
There are 15 (count em 15) key blanks ranging from 0.402 design resisitance to 11.8 design resisitance used for these systems.
Glad it worked out for you

_________________
Steve


96BBB 28K 3.42 Bolt-ons
95BBB 100K 3.73 383 New DD...already broke fixt the 4L60E twice
95 Black WB4 Hole...ee...grail
96 Black WB4 No holes in this
95BBB 189K 3.08 Old DD Stolen...by Matt. Cool
Whine..eee...Silver LS6
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toomanytoyz
Club President


Posts : 6870
Join date : 2009-01-20
Age : 40
Location : East Hampstead, NH USA

PostSubject: Re: Pass Key Light?   Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:03 pm

You could try just cleaning the keys with alcohol and blowing out the keyhole with some compressed air, too. Sometimes that helps...

_________________
Bill "The Verb" Crovo - Resident Car Slut & Unicorn Hunter

A Toasted Marshmallow, A Long German, A Lame Suburban and expensive dreams...
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21/4tonsoffun



Posts : 35
Join date : 2009-11-30
Age : 32
Location : Gloucester, MA

PostSubject: Re: Pass Key Light?   Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:33 am

If it starts and runs the system failed with the car running so it wouldnt likely be wiring. Try cleaning the key and cylinder or puting pressure against the key and cylinder to try to make a contact.

I recently had a war with Passkey and ended up replacing the lock cylinder and tricking the computer to get the car to start. Some day i plan to buy a new blank to get the light to go away, but that's $45 that could be in the paint and body fund.

Good stuff for passkey issues. ---> http://motorage.search-autoparts.com/motorage/data/articlestandard//motorage/292005/169809/article.pdf


Last edited by 21/4tonsoffun on Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:35 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Poor computing skills)
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sdstick



Posts : 4278
Join date : 2009-03-20
Location : Revere, MA

PostSubject: Re: Pass Key Light?   Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:49 am

When my problem surfaced it was intermittent (story of my life with my cars)
Pass Key would FLASH when it was locking me out. No crank.
When it JUST LIT it would let me start.
I had a 2nd key as well that was hardly ever used & it changed nothing
Did the bypass & goodbye problems.
I remember there's a direct wire between the VATS module & the ECM
I'm unqualified to help there, but if this doesnt fix the problem we'll look at that.
(I also didnt read that link ^^ yet)
FYI
VATS # (K)OHMS

1———— 0.402
2———— 0.523
3———— 0.681
4————-0.887
5————-1.130
6————-1.470
7————-1.870
8————-2.370
9————-3.010
10————3.740
11————4.750
12————6.040
13————7.500
14————9.530
15————11.801

_________________
Steve


96BBB 28K 3.42 Bolt-ons
95BBB 100K 3.73 383 New DD...already broke fixt the 4L60E twice
95 Black WB4 Hole...ee...grail
96 Black WB4 No holes in this
95BBB 189K 3.08 Old DD Stolen...by Matt. Cool
Whine..eee...Silver LS6
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sdstick



Posts : 4278
Join date : 2009-03-20
Location : Revere, MA

PostSubject: Re: Pass Key Light?   Fri Jul 30, 2010 1:19 pm

Here's a pic link it's labeled
http://shbox.com/1/air_bag_disc_2.jpg

_________________
Steve


96BBB 28K 3.42 Bolt-ons
95BBB 100K 3.73 383 New DD...already broke fixt the 4L60E twice
95 Black WB4 Hole...ee...grail
96 Black WB4 No holes in this
95BBB 189K 3.08 Old DD Stolen...by Matt. Cool
Whine..eee...Silver LS6
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Deputy347K9



Posts : 147
Join date : 2009-04-05
Location : Limington, Maine

PostSubject: Re: Pass Key Light?   Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:18 pm

First and foremost, I want to thank you folks for taking the time to help me out with this pesky problem. Just that the light being on bugs the heck out of me.

Here is where I stand at this very moment:

1. First thing I did was clean both keys with alcohol as well as the tumbler assembly, used a small can of compressed air to blow out the tumbler assembly and then tried again. Car starts normal and the pass key light still stays on. on to step two.

2. Having GM key #7 (1.870 ohms) I purchased three resistors, one being 1K and the other two are 470s. This equals 1.940 ohms, well into the tolerence area of 1.785 and 1.965. Twisted the ends together and then used solder to hold. on to step three.

3. Twisted my fat ass so that I could get up under the dash where I located the proper pass key plug. Once I seperated the plug, just for the hell of it I tried to start the car, started right up and ran perfect, of course the pass key light is still on. on to step four.

4. Next I tried several times, while the car was running, to insert the resistors in hopes of the light going out. Light will not go out?

Car starts and runs perfect with the pass key wires disconnected though the pass key light stays on?

Any ideas?

Larry
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Deputy347K9



Posts : 147
Join date : 2009-04-05
Location : Limington, Maine

PostSubject: Re: Pass Key Light?   Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:41 pm

Let me add another twist to this story. I just got off the telephone with Alex Rutenburg (PCM Performance) who installed the program onto the ECM for Ron when he owned the Roadmaster. Alex advised me that there is a setting in the ECM program, on or off. He beleives he had this one in the off position.

He is unsure if this would cause the light to stay on? This would explain why the car runs with the pass key connection apart.

Might come down to removing the light bulb.

Larry
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bammax



Posts : 2301
Join date : 2009-02-22
Age : 35
Location : Mansfield, Ma

PostSubject: Re: Pass Key Light?   Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:55 pm

I'll be the first to actually stop guessing and provide the wiring diagram that you need.

http://ss.lencolab.com/diagrams/impala_passkey_no_seo.pdf

Pin A5 (grey) grounds the circuit when there's an issue which triggers the light. Unplug pin A5 and that'll kill the light.
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Deputy347K9



Posts : 147
Join date : 2009-04-05
Location : Limington, Maine

PostSubject: Re: Pass Key Light?   Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:26 pm

Brad as everyone else that helped me out, thank you for all the advise and diagrams. Light is now out!!!!! The best part of this is I know quite abit more about the pass key system now, though I pray I don't need to use the infor again.

Now I have to find some other problem to keep me busy!

Again thank you all.

Larry
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sdstick



Posts : 4278
Join date : 2009-03-20
Location : Revere, MA

PostSubject: Re: Pass Key Light?   Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:13 pm

bammax wrote:
I'll be the first to actually stop guessing and provide the wiring diagram that you need.

Wow! that came across pretty cocky. Cool
These were no guesses here, this was passkey 101 class.
Did you miss post 4 where the wiring diagram link was given
Or post 5 where you were cleaning fuses... Razz ?
Wouldnt a dirty fuse also shut off the light? No power / no gnd=same thing.

Problem with your unhook it method is it didnt solve anything.
Did turn the light off, I'll give you that.
If there's ever a related problem it'll shut down & he'll never know why.

Maybe I'll try that with my CEL how many pins do I have to pull? scratch

Larry, glad your all set

_________________
Steve


96BBB 28K 3.42 Bolt-ons
95BBB 100K 3.73 383 New DD...already broke fixt the 4L60E twice
95 Black WB4 Hole...ee...grail
96 Black WB4 No holes in this
95BBB 189K 3.08 Old DD Stolen...by Matt. Cool
Whine..eee...Silver LS6
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Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Pass Key Light?   Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:19 pm

sdstick wrote:
bammax wrote:
I'll be the first to actually stop guessing and provide the wiring diagram that you need.

Wow! that came across pretty cocky. Cool

Brad "the Rays fan" Maxim

Some people think I'm an ass, but those who know me don't think as highly.
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bammax



Posts : 2301
Join date : 2009-02-22
Age : 35
Location : Mansfield, Ma

PostSubject: Re: Pass Key Light?   Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:16 pm

The A5 pin in the diagram is only used for the indicator light and nothing else. The fuse that goes to the light is also the cluster fuse so you can't just pull it. The only way to cut the light permanantly without screwing up everything else is to cut the wire running to the light after it separates from the rest of the cluster, pull the bulb, or remove that pin from the theft module.

And you need to use harsher words than just cocky to tease me Wink

Your check engine is a total conundrum to me. You're already past my knowledge base trying to diagnose it Crying or Very sad
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bammax



Posts : 2301
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PostSubject: Re: Pass Key Light?   Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:20 pm

By the way. My post was about disconnecting the light. It in no way is usefull in diagnosing why the light is on in the first place. I left that part up to you Laughing

You're the kind of guy who figures out how to fix stuff, while I try to find the best way to get the tape to cover it without sticking to my fingers Laughing
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mega



Posts : 907
Join date : 2011-03-01
Age : 36
Location : Hyannis, ma

PostSubject: Re: Pass Key Light?   Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:57 pm

ok my light is on all the time and i dont have a vats key just a regular one and i drive everyday with no trouble. i want to bypass the system or get rid of it all together and put a regular ignition in it. and thank you on the post were you can cut that wire in a5 and its off. i was looking at the diagram last night and thought about cutting it not i am going to . but the real question is why does my car start with light on and no vats key? is this because of maybe one of those 2 white wires is broken. if so y would you bypass it just cut one white wire and cut a5 wire wouldnt it in theory work like the bypass? im am friggin lost withthis one but im going to cut a5 right now wish me luck lol.
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mega



Posts : 907
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PostSubject: Re: Pass Key Light?   Sat Mar 05, 2011 3:22 pm

ok doing a little looking i found that the 2 white wires with orange sheath was spliced together after the connector so thats why mine runs without a vats key but is the theft seterant system right on the column? if so theres alot more wires in that block then the diagram shown it says left side behind i/p
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mega



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PostSubject: Re: Pass Key Light?   Sat Mar 05, 2011 3:45 pm

http://newrockies.com/the-problem-and-the-solution/diy/

i found this online but the guy wants money to show you how to do a full bypass no resistors needed.
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mega



Posts : 907
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PostSubject: Re: Pass Key Light?   Sat Mar 05, 2011 5:10 pm

ok i got one for ya i was out removing my bulbs for abs and pass key and now my damn gas gauge reads full all the time there is 1/4 tank in it and the damn temp gause is saying its cold and not warmed up when i know it is. what did i do is it possible i broke the circut board or dsomething now im a lil ticked and am almost ready to put a for sale sign on it HELP ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Pass Key Light?   Today at 8:57 pm

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