L99 performance question

Ferrari F430 Performance & Efficiency Standard Features

- 4,308 cc 4.3 liters V 8 mid engine with 92 mm bore, 81 mm stroke, 11.3 compression ratio, double overhead cam, variable valve timing/camshaft and four valves per cylinder
- Premium unleaded fuel 95
- Fuel economy EPA highway (mpg): 17 and EPA city (mpg): 11
- Multi-point injection fuel system
- Main premium unleaded fuel tank
- Power: 360 kW , 490 HP SAE @ 8,500 rpm; 343 ft lb , 465 Nm @ 5,250 rpm


I know it's a Ferrari and I'm stupid and know nothing, but it is an N/A 4.3 and it does show what is capable with small displacement. So the question is...........wait for it...........wait for it...........what it would take to make my naturally aspirated, multipoint fuel injected, 4.3L V8 put out 490 horses? Appearently higher compression and someone willing to build me a double overhead cam setup would get me close . I'm all for higher compression since I already run lower compression than you LT1 guys.

Add 1 horsepower at a time until your there

2 questions for Mark.

First do I only need two straps? I thought I'd need more.
Second question, do they have to be leather straps?

Honestly I've been toying with ways to boost power on a budget. So far I have these ideas.

1) a/c and air delete
2) frankenstein exhuast with cats removed and afterburner headers
3) intake ported for increased flow
4) heads ported along with valve job
5) stroke it to 305 using the crank and rods from an LT1 (possibly boost compression to 10:1)
6) cam that matches the displacement and heads
7) program the pcm for all of those changes

I'm hoping that will be enough to make 300 horses and outrun some of the LT1's.

So far I'm going through with the deletes in step 1 as well as some weight shaving throughout the car. I'm also piecing together the exhuast as I find spare money here and there. By next spring I hope to have steps 1 and 2 completely done. The port working on the intake runs a few hundred bucks so that may take a bit to get done. The heads I am afraid to price because I imagine it's expensive. As for the 305 setup I'm hoping to score a stock bottom end from someone who stroked to 383 on their car so the parts will be cheap and it'll be a matching set. Programming is self explanitory.

I'm hoping to make 300 plus horses and outrun some of the LT1's. The way I got it figured in my head is that if this engine comes out well then it'll eventually go into something lighter than a b-body like an old g-body or an s10. If it comes out bad it'll get lower compression pistons as well as a turbo friendly cam and become a twin turbo 305, because that sounds both stupid and fun and we all enjoy stupid fun every now and then

You'd have to assemble it in Modena.

Instead of wasting all of that time and $ on the 4.3, why don't you just shove an LT1 in her and be done with it?????????[img][/img]

Funny... That's the B-Body LT1 - accessories, wires, water pump, but it has aluminum heads? Is that a GM stock photo or something? Interesting.

Looks like something custom on the TB plate but cant tell what
Looks purdy like that

I just found a random pic on yahoo. You're right though, it is purdy with the aluminum heads. Maybe an LT4 conversion?

Replacing the L99 with a LT1 is by far, the most cost affective way to make more power. Just ask Tim.

LT1's suck. They've been done a million times in every type of car imaginable. I like things that are slightly different. I'm one of those people who'd much rather have a not so common drivetrain that performs than a cookie cutter combo like everyone else has. That's why I'm drawn to the memorable engines like the 409's, 327's, and turbo 3.8's. Remember the song goes "she's so fine my 409" not "hey I got a 350 just like everyone else"

Going against the grain with unique combos is also vastly more expensive.

You want decent power that a normal guy can afford, in one of our cars, go with a decent lt1. I built mine for cheap. I called in a few favors on the build, but it didn't break the bank.

I think you need to try one of the I converted my L99 to a Ferrari website
www.hahahaha.com
www.ruserious.com
www.broke&parked.com
You should be 1 of a kind there
Please let me know when your gonna hit the 7500RPM rev for the 1st time
Not squashing your creative side, I just cant be of any help here

bammax wrote:

LT1's suck. They've been done a million times in every type of car imaginable. I like things that are slightly different. I'm one of those people who'd much rather have a not so common drivetrain that performs than a cookie cutter combo like everyone else has. That's why I'm drawn to the memorable engines like the 409's, 327's, and turbo 3.8's. Remember the song goes "she's so fine my 409" not "hey I got a 350 just like everyone else"

i hope you can do what you want. but before i would say lt1 sucks. we have a couple of members here who might disagree. i remember back about 1993-1994. when the lt1 caprice (9c1) state police use to run them. they were some of the fastest cruisers ever made. that was in motor trend magazine. i went out and bought a new 1994 camaro z28. just because of the motor in it. ive been a believer ever since. im trying a few things in my roadie. well will in the spring. good luck with your project. remember to post pics.

The L99 is a good engine if you just use the car to drive to and from work. If you are looking for performance on a budget drop in an LT1. You will drop money on the L99 to make it comparable to an LT1 and still will be left behind. Or you could spend that money on an LT1 and be done. If you need help ill come help out. I feel you on being different and creative I still want to put a caddy 4.9 in my 95 olds 88 when everyone is telling me to put in a 3800 s/c.

I'm really still dumbfounded that you compared a Ferrari 4.3 to a GM L99.

Common dude, seriously?

F1 cars make 800 HP from 2.0 4 cylinders...

Drag Cars make 9000hp from 7 liter motors.

It's like comparing an apple to an orange just because they both have a diameter of 3 inches.

Ferrari motors are hand built with almost zero manufacturing tolerances.
They have 32 Valves to your 16.
They rev to 9,000 RPM compared to your 4,500.
They are engineered by the best racing engineers in the world and have millions of dollars invested into R&D of each motor.
That engine also has direct injection, titanium internals and has been perfectly balanced.
Higher Compression is just the tip of the iceberg.
---

You know that horsepower is nothing but a mathematical equation based on (Torque)*(RPM), right? To get your 4.3 to that level you'd first hafta figure out a way to spin it up to 9,000rpm.

For real... You can get performance out of your 4.3 but it just doesnt make ANY sense. Fine, I understand you want something unique... Your just wasting money on an L99. Anything you do to an L99 you can do to an LT1 and see bigger gains.

If your gonna piss money away anyway, and just want something unique, get a Big Block or go big and get some LS motor.

I really wish I could find that artical about the chevy race shops 4.3 L99. I think it was punched out to 302ci, and was in a 55 or 57 chevy. Real cool story, but it has to be about 12 or 13 years ago in GMHP magazine.

It's nothing like apples to oranges. An engine is an air pump. If 2 air pumps both flow the same cfm's then the question is how to convert that to mechanical power and how to do it efficiently. The Ferrari engines are far more efficient, but that doesn't mean GM engines can't become more efficient. Look at the people changing to beehive springs and roller tip 1.6 rockers. The trick is finding out what areas need to become more efficient and the best way to fix the problem. Perfect examples that everyone are already doing is improving cfm's with intake and exhaust and then improving the power production with valve work and porting as well as pcm tuning. Just saying that it's not as good and never will be is a lazy way out to me. As long as something can be taken apart and put back together it can always be improved on. And any increase found in an L99 could be reproduced to some extent on an LT1 so we should all be thinking together on what to try.

I've been wondering for years how to spin the engine more but it seems like 7,500 is when the high dollar LT1's start to go up in flames. The question is whether it would be possible to put a carb and a standard sbc distributor on a t-56 motor to see just how high they'll go and what eventually ends up breaking. I have a feeling once you swap in better lifters, pushrods, rockers, and spring that these motors may be able to spin right to the current limit. Then a better camshaft and some rocker girdles may allow it to go slightly higher. Then I'm guessing the accessory drive will be the next thing to fight with.

You will never even get 300RWHP from your L99 without sacrificing major drive ability or spending $50k.

300 horses from an L99 stroked to 305 would be just as attainable as an LT1 putting out 350 horses. The only difference between the 2 is the L99 has smaller bores and lower compression pistons. Otherwise the engines are the same. The L99 may even have a stronger block since the cylinders are spaced slightly further apart which creates larger walls between cylinders. That's very debatable though.

I'd bet that just by stroking to 305 and using pistons that raise the compression to 10-1 there would be a substantial jump in power. Possibly getting into the neighborhood of 250 or so at the flywheel, assuming the stock was 200. It would basically be an LT1 minus 45 ci so the power difference between the 2 would be the same as the difference between an LT1 and one stroked to 396.

Speak of 32 valve's and you shall find them
http://www.araoengineering.com/Chevy/chevysmb.htm

White93ltz wrote:

You will never even get 300RWHP from your L99 without sacrificing major drive ability or spending $50k.

Chevy Race shops put out more than that using off the shelf stuff. I think it was over 400hp. So it can be done, but without the article right in front of me, it would be hard to give figures, or specs.

Since everyone hates me for liking Ferrari's I've found a new role model. And it even runs on gas that can be found at any gas station.


2008 Maserati Quattroporte Base Sedan Performance & Efficiency Standard Features
- 4,244 cc 4.2 liters V 8 front engine with 92.0 mm bore, 79.8 mm stroke, 11.0 compression ratio, double overhead cam, variable valve timing/camshaft and four valves per cylinder
- Premium unleaded fuel 91
- Multi-point injection fuel system
- 23.8 gallon main premium unleaded fuel tank 19.8
- Power: 298 kW , 400 HP SAE @ 7,000 rpm; 339 ft lb , 460 Nm @ 4,250 rpm

This engine is even smaller than the Ferrari

bammax wrote:

This engine is even smaller than the Ferrari

It's still manufactured by Ferrari though.

Back to reality.

If I increase the stroke by using an LT1 crank I would also have to use shorter rods to keep the pistons in the engine right? I'd like to use off the shelf parts like an LT1 crank with L99 pistons and an appropriate connecting rod to make everything fit. The big problem is that I'm not sure how to find the right size rod. I'd like to hear it's the LT1 rod but I doubt it's that easy.

I should probably ask Golen if they've been down this road yet.

bammax wrote:

It's nothing like apples to oranges. An engine is an air pump. If 2 air pumps both flow the same cfm's then the question is how to convert that to mechanical power and how to do it efficiently. The Ferrari engines are far more efficient, but that doesn't mean GM engines can't become more efficient. Look at the people changing to beehive springs and roller tip 1.6 rockers. The trick is finding out what areas need to become more efficient and the best way to fix the problem. Perfect examples that everyone are already doing is improving cfm's with intake and exhaust and then improving the power production with valve work and porting as well as pcm tuning. Just saying that it's not as good and never will be is a lazy way out to me. As long as something can be taken apart and put back together it can always be improved on. And any increase found in an L99 could be reproduced to some extent on an LT1 so we should all be thinking together on what to try.

I've been wondering for years how to spin the engine more but it seems like 7,500 is when the high dollar LT1's start to go up in flames. The question is whether it would be possible to put a carb and a standard sbc distributor on a t-56 motor to see just how high they'll go and what eventually ends up breaking. I have a feeling once you swap in better lifters, pushrods, rockers, and spring that these motors may be able to spin right to the current limit. Then a better camshaft and some rocker girdles may allow it to go slightly higher. Then I'm guessing the accessory drive will be the next thing to fight with.

Eveyone bashes the L99. It's like going on the national forum and being a W body owner. Dont be haters. Help out rather than try to deter others due to personal dislikes.

I can not find any info on the build of the 55 chevy with the l99 based engine, but I was able to dig up the mag and artical name.

chevy highperformance "august 95" "(Timeless machine)"

Here is the only mention of it on the webs I can find. Also proves that even though gm never sold the 4.3 in the wagon to the public, does not mean they did not origionaly plan too. I still think it was a last minute decission not to install the little guy in the caprice wagon. Probably not that it would not move the car, but rather how it would if people used the car the way it was intended.
EDIT: Also take note that the Chevy Race shops caprice had the roadmaster rear side window instead of the caprice version.

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/48479_chevy_impala_ss_wagon_six_speed_swap/index.html