BADASS of New England

An automobile club for the enthusiast who enjoys the last of the big GM cars. The rear wheel drive B and D bodys. Chevrolet Impala SS, Caprice, 9C1, Buick Roadmaster, Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser, Cadillac Fleetwood
 
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 "Screwed"

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GasTT



Posts : 2675
Join date : 2009-01-19
Age : 28
Location : Treasure Coast, FL

PostSubject: "Screwed"   Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:49 pm

Tried extracting the screws out of my wheels today.. got 3 done and then broke the extractor. I dont think I had it in the drill properly. So now I'm "screwed".



What are my options here?
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Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: "Screwed"   Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:57 pm

Take it to a machine shop.
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Ironfistdog



Posts : 2124
Join date : 2011-01-11
Age : 35
Location : Warren, MA

PostSubject: Re: "Screwed"   Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:30 pm

Got a pick set? How much is broken off inside? Anyhow big is this screw? No access from the back?
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mega



Posts : 907
Join date : 2011-03-01
Age : 36
Location : Hyannis, ma

PostSubject: Re: "Screwed"   Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:37 pm

ill see if i got ome small picks or a tiny nail set at the shop. maybe you can pop the extractor out.
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Machine-De-Zine



Posts : 512
Join date : 2010-11-16
Age : 60
Location : Wrentham

PostSubject: Re: "Screwed"   Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:15 pm

GasTT wrote:
Tried extracting the screws out of my wheels today.. got 3 done and then broke the extractor. I dont think I had it in the drill properly. So now I'm "screwed".



What are my options here?
* This is what I do every day!
I need more info.
What are you trying to remove, be specific?
What size extractor, and what brand if you know?
Can I see more photos?

There are many options, but without having a clear idea of whats going on here, its a guess.
Good brands of extractor are case hardened, having a hard shell with and a very tough core.
Cheap ones that are thru hardened can be hit hard with an expendable punch to break the stuck piece into tiny bits, a little at a time. - - - or - - -
Do you have access to the other side? Bang it out from the other side. - - - or - - -
Tap sharply all around on the exposed stub from alternating low angles to release the grip of the tapered shank within the broken bolt remnant. - - - or - - -
If you have access to a stick welder, you can weld a heavy welding rod directly to the piece, and slap hammer them both out. - - - or - - -
Do you have access to a torch? heat it cherry red to anneal it and drill it out carefully. - - - or - - -
If your'e decent with a small cutting torch, you can burn it out, It looks like an alum wheel, so beware of the lower melting point of aluminum.
Usually the very high thermal conductivity of aluminum "wicks" the high heat out away from localized meltdown, but the heat will bear down on the ferrous slug. - - - or - - -
Our old Tool & Die shop had a E.D.M. set-up that would very slowly and selectively remove material from any thing. VERY expensive process though!
Sometimes it becomes necessary to machine it out with a solid fine grain carbide end-mill with the wheel firmly secured to a Bridgeport table.
Did you say you had the extractor in a power drill? Idk about that method, I always work easy & slow with hand tools only for extractions.
In the end, you may need a machine shop to fix it if you do any more damage than that. Like installing a thread insert repair: Keen-Sert or Heli-Coil.
Its unlikely that this is one of those cases, but sometimes the cost of a repair exceeds the value of the part, or wheel in your scenario.
-
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No Moa



Posts : 3871
Join date : 2009-02-21
Age : 44
Location : Midcoast Maine

PostSubject: Re: "Screwed"   Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:24 am

My $.02 don't use a drill, do it by hand I use a 3/8 rachet. Get a small pointed chisel, tap it in the reverse direction, it should back right out, I have snapped them off many times.
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GasTT



Posts : 2675
Join date : 2009-01-19
Age : 28
Location : Treasure Coast, FL

PostSubject: Re: "Screwed"   Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:43 pm

I am trying to remove screws that secure the center cap to my aluminum wheels. I need to remove 15 more. I removed 3 from 1 via extraction and 2 from two others using an allen wrench. Two of them in one wheel now have broken pieces of EZ out stuck in them.



That pic is deceiving. The screw is TINY. Can't get a chisel on there. I might be able to pick it out with a good pick set.



The EZ out set I used was a cheapo from Harbor Freight. It would have worked fine, but you know those 3 prongs in a drill that hold the bit? Well I got the damn EZ out in between two of them instead of dead in the middle. That's why it snapped.


Last edited by GasTT on Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Ironfistdog



Posts : 2124
Join date : 2011-01-11
Age : 35
Location : Warren, MA

PostSubject: Re: "Screwed"   Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:50 pm

Was it not possible to drill the head off and then get vice grips onto the shaft after removing the cap? Even a small pair of needle nose grips? Can you use a small punch to mark the center and drill it out with a tiny drill, progressively going larger? Can always re-tap it later with bigger threads. Try the picks first. Good luck sir elephant
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GasTT



Posts : 2675
Join date : 2009-01-19
Age : 28
Location : Treasure Coast, FL

PostSubject: Re: "Screwed"   Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:53 pm

The thickness of the center cap metal is barely 1/4 inch. With the conical seat of the screw, it would barely be an 1/8th of an inch, if anything, exposed had I drilled the head off.
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GasTT



Posts : 2675
Join date : 2009-01-19
Age : 28
Location : Treasure Coast, FL

PostSubject: Re: "Screwed"   Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:00 pm

I had an idea... I could JB weld something to the tops of the screws to aid in removing them?
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Machine-De-Zine



Posts : 512
Join date : 2010-11-16
Age : 60
Location : Wrentham

PostSubject: Re: "Screwed"   Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:22 am

GasTT wrote:
I had an idea... I could JB weld something to the tops of the screws to aid in removing them?
*
Be patient!
Are you in any huge rush to get it done today? Probably not.
I have a way to get those pesky screws out, but only if the hex socket hole in the screw is not stripped out.
Buy or make special tool that is used with a .409" shank air impact hammer.
The shank is standard 409, but the other end is a 3/8" male square drive, like an extension for your ratchet.
There is also a 3/4" nut welded to the shank rather close to the air tool. The whole insert tool is only about 5" long.
You will also need an impact grade allen socket to fit into the screw's hex socket hole.
Buzz the impact driver lightly into the top of the screw while gently applying a backing out rotation to the 3/4" nut with a short open end wrench.
IT WORKS LIKE YOU WOULD NOT BELIEVE.
Every time I show someone this trick, they literally can NOT believe their eyes.
People who witness this process claim that it must be magic, or even a miracle, lol.

Do not put an easy out in a reversing power drill, especially a square tool in a 3 jaw drill chuck. It doesn't work!
Another nice trick is to choose a small 12 point socket (the closest sized metric or inch) that engages over the 4 point (square) easy-out tool.
Lisle, Crappsman, SnapOn (& others) make square drive (& double square-drive) tap sockets and regular square sockets to use here.
If you are going to tackle jobs like these, you will need access to a better selection and quantity of tools.
Use ONLY HAND TOOLS to back-rotate the easy-out out of the work piece. Put away your power drill for this extraction.

If you can not picture what special tool it is that I've described above, give me a few days to get it posted.

If you can simply buy affordable new center caps, I have another suggestion. The wheels are obviously expensive, and need to be saved.
Carefully break off the old center caps into little pieces, revealing all five screws just sticking out of the wheel, & now with NO TENSILE LOAD on them.
The top of the screw's flat top is then extremely easy to grip.
Use plenty of TriZol penetrating solvent and rock back and forth gently until the screw starts to rock out of it's "death grip" threaded hole in the wheel.
This stuff is made by the Castoleum Corp. Yonkers, NY 10710 - Part No. TPS100, & it is made of 100% organic de-gummed castor oil.
Dissimilar metals here allow galvanic action to help create the corrosion that "welds" these screws into their aluminum tomb.

As for the JB Weld idea, I can't see that as working very effectively, unless they are barely more than finger tight in the wheel.
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sdstick



Posts : 4278
Join date : 2009-03-20
Location : Revere, MA

PostSubject: Re: "Screwed"   Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:36 am

Cant you just drill it right out from the start, using the allen as you center punch (kinda what Indy said only start that way)
You'll still need to deal with your problem, but at least you wont be dealing with 40% fail.
Remember though, you dont want to be breaking any taps off either.

_________________
Steve


96BBB 28K 3.42 Bolt-ons
95BBB 100K 3.73 383 New DD...already broke fixt the 4L60E twice
95 Black WB4 Hole...ee...grail
96 Black WB4 No holes in this
95BBB 189K 3.08 Old DD Stolen...by Matt. Cool
Whine..eee...Silver LS6
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jvette65



Posts : 111
Join date : 2010-02-16

PostSubject: Re: "Screwed"   Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:32 pm

Used one of these for years to remove stubborn small screws. Let some penetrating oil sink in around the screw head, use a light tap on the impact tool with a proper sized bit, and the screws will loosen. For the mangled screw, the tip of the extractor that is broken off has to be removed first, then you should use an oversized bit that can be tapped into the remaining hole and try the hand impact tool. You can get the tool for cheap at Harbor Freight. Go easy at first when working on the small screws (less is more). The tool is reversable, make sure it is engaged to loosen screws (ccw) not tighten when you use it.

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sdstick



Posts : 4278
Join date : 2009-03-20
Location : Revere, MA

PostSubject: Re: "Screwed"   Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:17 pm

Those were mentioned as good door sill screw removers too.

_________________
Steve


96BBB 28K 3.42 Bolt-ons
95BBB 100K 3.73 383 New DD...already broke fixt the 4L60E twice
95 Black WB4 Hole...ee...grail
96 Black WB4 No holes in this
95BBB 189K 3.08 Old DD Stolen...by Matt. Cool
Whine..eee...Silver LS6
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PostSubject: Re: "Screwed"   Today at 4:46 pm

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