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 Header Suggestions anyone?

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BoSStonsSS



Posts : 770
Join date : 2009-01-22
Age : 29
Location : BOSTON,MA

PostSubject: Header Suggestions anyone?   Sat Nov 14, 2009 9:02 am

are there any good headers out there for less than $500?
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BoSStonsSS



Posts : 770
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Location : BOSTON,MA

PostSubject: Re: Header Suggestions anyone?   Sat Nov 14, 2009 9:23 am

these?

http://www.sfxperformance.com/parts/HOO2063.htm
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toomanytoyz
Club President


Posts : 6854
Join date : 2009-01-20
Age : 40
Location : East Hampstead, NH USA

PostSubject: Re: Header Suggestions anyone?   Sat Nov 14, 2009 9:47 am

The "inexpensive" headers will require you to have an exhaust shop do some work to hook them up to your current exhaust.

I have had excellent luck with the Flowtech Afterburners. They are a GREAT fitting header. Better than the Tri-y's, even.
Uncoated for $185 http://www.summitracing.com/parts/BIG-49100FLT/
Coated for $335 http://www.summitracing.com/parts/BIG-49100-1FLT/


I also have these in my garage waiting to install. Summit branded dynomax coated headers for $189. They look to require trimming or removing the frame braces, too. But they are CHEAP!
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-G9001-9/


Both can be used with o2 bungs in the collectors. Wires should reach.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/BIG-10110FLT/ $29

Also plan on another 50-75 bucks for GOOD gaskets and bolts.
Percy's $30

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PHP-66011/

ARP 5/16" 12 points $20

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ARP-400-1208/

Go with ANY of these and you're under 500 clams with the exhaust hookups.

Cats? Walker High Flows for $55 each

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WLK-15038/

Plus, you get to drive to the exhaust shop OPEN HEADERS!!!!!! cheers cherry king


EDIT: Oh, and STAY AWAY from shorty headers like the ones you linked! Not only are they a total BITCH to install, but they are virtually USELESS for any real gains. Go with long tubes. Wink

For those of you keeping tract of the moolah... That's $495 WITH CATS!!!! If you go with the coated afterburners that fit like a phucking glove. That's not much more than the price of those UNCOATED SHORTIES you posted! Ad another 50-100 bucks for the exhaust shop work and you'll be a VERY happy man!

_________________
Bill "The Verb" Crovo - Resident Car Slut & Unicorn Hunter

A Toasted Marshmallow, A Long German, A Lame Suburban and expensive dreams...
Missing all my previous B's, D's and V... Sad
American Ricer
www.badassofne.net
"Ooooh! Look! Something shiny!"
NO MORE UNICORNS!!!!!

LOWER IT!!! Wink


Last edited by toomanytoyz on Sat Nov 14, 2009 10:01 am; edited 2 times in total
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toomanytoyz
Club President


Posts : 6854
Join date : 2009-01-20
Age : 40
Location : East Hampstead, NH USA

PostSubject: Re: Header Suggestions anyone?   Sat Nov 14, 2009 9:56 am

Oh, also, you can skip buying the reducers with the o2 bungs. Summit sells bungs for like 4 or 5 bucks a piece and you could just have someone weld them onto the ones that come with the headers to save a few bucks...

Oh, and for the ULTIMATE cheap exhaust, I ordered this, too...
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-680131/

$199 now, but was $170 when I ordered it. That's a complete 2.5" exhaust that SHOULD fit. Smile

This is all going on the Marshmallow, btw. Those cheap summit coated headers and this 2.5" exhaust. Hopefully I can get some help when I'm ready to install. Wink

_________________
Bill "The Verb" Crovo - Resident Car Slut & Unicorn Hunter

A Toasted Marshmallow, A Long German, A Lame Suburban and expensive dreams...
Missing all my previous B's, D's and V... Sad
American Ricer
www.badassofne.net
"Ooooh! Look! Something shiny!"
NO MORE UNICORNS!!!!!

LOWER IT!!! Wink
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http://impalass.uniquekind.net/
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Header Suggestions anyone?   Sat Nov 14, 2009 10:28 am

toomanytoyz wrote:


This is all going on the Marshmallow, btw. Those cheap summit coated headers and this 2.5" exhaust. Hopefully I can get some help when I'm ready to install. Wink
Someone call my name? Wink
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BoSStonsSS



Posts : 770
Join date : 2009-01-22
Age : 29
Location : BOSTON,MA

PostSubject: Re: Header Suggestions anyone?   Sat Nov 14, 2009 10:54 am

Thanks a BUNCH Crovo. I'm going to lean towards the coated Flowtechs..and your suggesting the percy's gasket and bolts. right?
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toomanytoyz
Club President


Posts : 6854
Join date : 2009-01-20
Age : 40
Location : East Hampstead, NH USA

PostSubject: Re: Header Suggestions anyone?   Sat Nov 14, 2009 11:07 am

BoSStonsSS wrote:
Thanks a BUNCH Crovo. I'm going to lean towards the coated Flowtechs..and your suggesting the percy's gasket and bolts. right?

Dude, no shit, those AB's are the easiest headers I've installed on a B/D-body. And I've installed them all. They both go in from the TOP and bolt access is awesome. You can easily install each one in 15 minutes once the old manifolds are off.

And yes, I recommend those gaskets, ESPECIALLY with the AB's (as their flange welds/grinds kinda suck), and those bolts will make your like a MILLION times easier.

_________________
Bill "The Verb" Crovo - Resident Car Slut & Unicorn Hunter

A Toasted Marshmallow, A Long German, A Lame Suburban and expensive dreams...
Missing all my previous B's, D's and V... Sad
American Ricer
www.badassofne.net
"Ooooh! Look! Something shiny!"
NO MORE UNICORNS!!!!!

LOWER IT!!! Wink
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http://impalass.uniquekind.net/
BoSStonsSS



Posts : 770
Join date : 2009-01-22
Age : 29
Location : BOSTON,MA

PostSubject: Re: Header Suggestions anyone?   Sat Nov 14, 2009 11:16 am

Yessss.. cant wait to get them. SPRING HERE I COME!!
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iceman3201



Posts : 641
Join date : 2009-02-12
Age : 70
Location : south portland maine

PostSubject: header suggestions anyone?   Sat Nov 14, 2009 11:49 am

well i was going with the tri -y and there cats. but its a lot of money. so all the items bill c just posted is on my summit wish list. have to think about this. but they will be coated inside and out. jayson and larry sr. told me where to send them. and they will be long tubes. so thank you bill c. Very Happy
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BoSStonsSS



Posts : 770
Join date : 2009-01-22
Age : 29
Location : BOSTON,MA

PostSubject: Re: Header Suggestions anyone?   Sat Nov 14, 2009 11:53 am

STICKY QUALITY!!!!! cheers
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druzdcm



Posts : 166
Join date : 2009-02-24
Age : 38

PostSubject: Re: Header Suggestions anyone?   Sat Nov 14, 2009 1:43 pm

If I did not get my Tri-Ys I would have snatched those headers Bill recommends. Good intel Bill! I atleast got my Tri-Ys from Focuztech uncoated w/ cats so I did not drop crazy cash, less than $700. I guess if you say "If i were to do this again" I would probly follow my reply. When are you going to tear things up in your garage Bill?
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toomanytoyz
Club President


Posts : 6854
Join date : 2009-01-20
Age : 40
Location : East Hampstead, NH USA

PostSubject: Re: Header Suggestions anyone?   Sat Nov 14, 2009 3:00 pm

IMPALADAKID wrote:

Someone call my name? Wink

I most certainly did! Smile


druzdcm wrote:
When are you going to tear things up in your garage Bill?

Not sure. I need to get one piece of shit outta there first. Wink Maybe sometime before it gets too cold? But probably sometime in the early sprig.

_________________
Bill "The Verb" Crovo - Resident Car Slut & Unicorn Hunter

A Toasted Marshmallow, A Long German, A Lame Suburban and expensive dreams...
Missing all my previous B's, D's and V... Sad
American Ricer
www.badassofne.net
"Ooooh! Look! Something shiny!"
NO MORE UNICORNS!!!!!

LOWER IT!!! Wink
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http://impalass.uniquekind.net/
boojum



Posts : 2148
Join date : 2009-01-21
Age : 29
Location : NH

PostSubject: Re: Header Suggestions anyone?   Sat Nov 14, 2009 4:10 pm

toomanytoyz wrote:
..
Oh, and for the ULTIMATE cheap exhaust, I ordered this, too...
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-680131/
$199 now, but was $170 when I ordered it. That's a complete 2.5" exhaust that SHOULD fit. Smile

...

I haven't seen that one before. Are going to use those mufflers? Are they just the regular Summit turbos?
I suggest the Bills get this installed soon so we can all hear it! I have to do my exhaust soon.

Thanks
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toomanytoyz
Club President


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Join date : 2009-01-20
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Location : East Hampstead, NH USA

PostSubject: Re: Header Suggestions anyone?   Sat Nov 14, 2009 4:28 pm

Hey! I've been stickied!!!!!!! Very Happy

_________________
Bill "The Verb" Crovo - Resident Car Slut & Unicorn Hunter

A Toasted Marshmallow, A Long German, A Lame Suburban and expensive dreams...
Missing all my previous B's, D's and V... Sad
American Ricer
www.badassofne.net
"Ooooh! Look! Something shiny!"
NO MORE UNICORNS!!!!!

LOWER IT!!! Wink
Back to top Go down
http://impalass.uniquekind.net/
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Header Suggestions anyone?   Sat Nov 14, 2009 4:56 pm

toomanytoyz wrote:
Hey! I've been stickied!!!!!!! Very Happy
Lets try not to make a big deal about it, ok? It could have happened to anyone. Wink
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JRS9C1



Posts : 434
Join date : 2009-01-20
Age : 26
Location : Bethel ME

PostSubject: Re: Header Suggestions anyone?   Sat Nov 14, 2009 5:30 pm

I have the uncoated afterburners. Picked up a nice gain in performance.
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toomanytoyz
Club President


Posts : 6854
Join date : 2009-01-20
Age : 40
Location : East Hampstead, NH USA

PostSubject: Re: Header Suggestions anyone?   Sat Nov 14, 2009 5:47 pm

IMPALADAKID wrote:
toomanytoyz wrote:
Hey! I've been stickied!!!!!!! Very Happy
Lets try not to make a big deal about it, ok? It could have happened to anyone. Wink

Yeah. True. But it DID happen. It happened to MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Razz

_________________
Bill "The Verb" Crovo - Resident Car Slut & Unicorn Hunter

A Toasted Marshmallow, A Long German, A Lame Suburban and expensive dreams...
Missing all my previous B's, D's and V... Sad
American Ricer
www.badassofne.net
"Ooooh! Look! Something shiny!"
NO MORE UNICORNS!!!!!

LOWER IT!!! Wink
Back to top Go down
http://impalass.uniquekind.net/
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Header Suggestions anyone?   Sat Nov 14, 2009 5:50 pm

toomanytoyz wrote:
IMPALADAKID wrote:
toomanytoyz wrote:
Hey! I've been stickied!!!!!!! Very Happy
Lets try not to make a big deal about it, ok? It could have happened to anyone. Wink

Yeah. True. But it DID happen. It happened to MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Razz
Why yes, yes it did Bill. Would you like to talk about it? Razz
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toomanytoyz
Club President


Posts : 6854
Join date : 2009-01-20
Age : 40
Location : East Hampstead, NH USA

PostSubject: Re: Header Suggestions anyone?   Sat Nov 14, 2009 5:51 pm

IMPALADAKID wrote:
toomanytoyz wrote:
IMPALADAKID wrote:
toomanytoyz wrote:
Hey! I've been stickied!!!!!!! Very Happy
Lets try not to make a big deal about it, ok? It could have happened to anyone. Wink

Yeah. True. But it DID happen. It happened to MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Razz
Why yes, yes it did Bill. Would you like to talk about it? Razz

LOL. No. I think I'm done now. Wink

_________________
Bill "The Verb" Crovo - Resident Car Slut & Unicorn Hunter

A Toasted Marshmallow, A Long German, A Lame Suburban and expensive dreams...
Missing all my previous B's, D's and V... Sad
American Ricer
www.badassofne.net
"Ooooh! Look! Something shiny!"
NO MORE UNICORNS!!!!!

LOWER IT!!! Wink
Back to top Go down
http://impalass.uniquekind.net/
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Header Suggestions anyone?   Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:07 pm

toomanytoyz wrote:
IMPALADAKID wrote:
toomanytoyz wrote:
IMPALADAKID wrote:
toomanytoyz wrote:
Hey! I've been stickied!!!!!!! Very Happy
Lets try not to make a big deal about it, ok? It could have happened to anyone. Wink

Yeah. True. But it DID happen. It happened to MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Razz
Why yes, yes it did Bill. Would you like to talk about it? Razz

LOL. No. I think I'm done now. Wink
Fine, but we are here if you change your mind. study
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BoSStonsSS



Posts : 770
Join date : 2009-01-22
Age : 29
Location : BOSTON,MA

PostSubject: Re: Header Suggestions anyone?   Sat Nov 14, 2009 7:11 pm

hey crovo make a Cam sticky next! cheers
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toomanytoyz
Club President


Posts : 6854
Join date : 2009-01-20
Age : 40
Location : East Hampstead, NH USA

PostSubject: Re: Header Suggestions anyone?   Sat Nov 14, 2009 8:04 pm

BoSStonsSS wrote:
hey crovo make a Cam sticky next! cheers

Like this?






Shocked

_________________
Bill "The Verb" Crovo - Resident Car Slut & Unicorn Hunter

A Toasted Marshmallow, A Long German, A Lame Suburban and expensive dreams...
Missing all my previous B's, D's and V... Sad
American Ricer
www.badassofne.net
"Ooooh! Look! Something shiny!"
NO MORE UNICORNS!!!!!

LOWER IT!!! Wink
Back to top Go down
http://impalass.uniquekind.net/
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Header Suggestions anyone?   Sat Nov 14, 2009 8:24 pm

toomanytoyz wrote:
BoSStonsSS wrote:
hey crovo make a Cam sticky next! cheers

Like this?






Shocked
Looks more like "how do we get the biggest gm car in the worlds smallest garage". scratch
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bammax



Posts : 2301
Join date : 2009-02-22
Age : 34
Location : Mansfield, Ma

PostSubject: Re: Header Suggestions anyone?   Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:33 pm

Has anyone made hookup pipes for the afterburners yet? I was going in that direction until I saw that clear-image gave up and I don't trust my local exhaust places to do that kind of work. There's no use in headers and duels when the hookup pipe is the wrong size and pinch bent.
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toomanytoyz
Club President


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Join date : 2009-01-20
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Location : East Hampstead, NH USA

PostSubject: Re: Header Suggestions anyone?   Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:47 pm

No one makes a hookup, Brad. But any exhaust shop with a bender can do it. Crush bends aren't gonna hurt things that badly. They are small bends, not like it's a 90. Smile

And, I'm sure if you got a set of collector extensions from summit, you could finagle a way to make them work.

The bends are not tough. Here are the pics of the Stainless 2.5" pipes and cats we fabbed up for my caddy. We just got a bunch of bends and cut and welded them together.






_________________
Bill "The Verb" Crovo - Resident Car Slut & Unicorn Hunter

A Toasted Marshmallow, A Long German, A Lame Suburban and expensive dreams...
Missing all my previous B's, D's and V... Sad
American Ricer
www.badassofne.net
"Ooooh! Look! Something shiny!"
NO MORE UNICORNS!!!!!

LOWER IT!!! Wink
Back to top Go down
http://impalass.uniquekind.net/
bammax



Posts : 2301
Join date : 2009-02-22
Age : 34
Location : Mansfield, Ma

PostSubject: Re: Header Suggestions anyone?   Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:56 pm

Would it be worth while to buy a couple mandral bent 180 curves and just use those to make the hookups instead of having the crush bent pipes made? Assuming the costs are relatively the same.
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boojum



Posts : 2148
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Age : 29
Location : NH

PostSubject: Re: Header Suggestions anyone?   Wed Dec 02, 2009 8:19 pm

Will the Summit-680131 exhaust fit on sedan? Or close enough? Is the difference between the wagon and sedan for the spare tire?

There's one on eBay for $170.
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toomanytoyz
Club President


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Age : 40
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PostSubject: Re: Header Suggestions anyone?   Wed Dec 02, 2009 8:37 pm

I think it's a better fit on the sedan for sure. At least a better chance of it fitting properly. I was not expecting to be able to use the tailpipes on the wagon without modification.

_________________
Bill "The Verb" Crovo - Resident Car Slut & Unicorn Hunter

A Toasted Marshmallow, A Long German, A Lame Suburban and expensive dreams...
Missing all my previous B's, D's and V... Sad
American Ricer
www.badassofne.net
"Ooooh! Look! Something shiny!"
NO MORE UNICORNS!!!!!

LOWER IT!!! Wink
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http://impalass.uniquekind.net/
BoSStonsSS



Posts : 770
Join date : 2009-01-22
Age : 29
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PostSubject: Re: Header Suggestions anyone?   Wed Mar 03, 2010 12:35 am

ok, im thinking of getting the uncoated afterburners. If i delete the cats will i have problems?
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bammax



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PostSubject: Re: Header Suggestions anyone?   Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:20 am

Won't pass inspection. Visual inspection will be an automatic fail even though there's no more emission testing.
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BoSStonsSS



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PostSubject: Re: Header Suggestions anyone?   Wed Mar 03, 2010 8:28 am

how would it not past visually? check engine light? the guys i go to do not look under the car. they just take my registration and and give me a sticker
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bammax



Posts : 2301
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PostSubject: Re: Header Suggestions anyone?   Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:53 pm

Then it'll pass Wink
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BoSStonsSS



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PostSubject: Re: Header Suggestions anyone?   Sun Mar 28, 2010 10:21 am

ok. i bought the afterburner headers. do i need cats? would it be obnoxiously loud if i delete them?

passing inspection wouldnt be a problem since its a 94 so im not worried bout that
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BoSStonsSS



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PostSubject: Re: Header Suggestions anyone?   Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:00 pm

Cats or no cats? Shocked
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mean ss



Posts : 648
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PostSubject: Re: Header Suggestions anyone?   Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:18 pm

it's up to you Rich, the Cats will make it a little quieter
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druzdcm



Posts : 166
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PostSubject: Re: Header Suggestions anyone?   Wed Mar 31, 2010 6:18 am

Is this going to bolt up to your catback? I see you have Borla.
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BoSStonsSS



Posts : 770
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PostSubject: Re: Header Suggestions anyone?   Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:19 am

druzdcm wrote:
Is this going to bolt up to your catback? I see you have Borla.


YUP!!!!!
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BoSStonsSS



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PostSubject: Re: Header Suggestions anyone?   Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:17 pm

Yayyyyyyyyyyy! Got my headers. They are uncoated do you think I should spray that VHT high temp coating thingy.
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GasTT



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PostSubject: Re: Header Suggestions anyone?   Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:17 am

yes i would give them a few coats of something. Make sure it's high temp stuff.
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alwyswntd1



Posts : 118
Join date : 2009-05-11
Location : upstate n.y.

PostSubject: headers   Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:11 pm

toomanytoyz wrote:
The "inexpensive" headers will require you to have an exhaust shop do some work to hook them up to your current exhaust.

I have had excellent luck with the Flowtech Afterburners. They are a GREAT fitting header. Better than the Tri-y's, even.
Uncoated for $185 http://www.summitracing.com/parts/BIG-49100FLT/
Coated for $335 http://www.summitracing.com/parts/BIG-49100-1FLT/


I also have these in my garage waiting to install. Summit branded dynomax coated headers for $189. They look to require trimming or removing the frame braces, too. But they are CHEAP!
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-G9001-9/


Both can be used with o2 bungs in the collectors. Wires should reach.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/BIG-10110FLT/ $29

Also plan on another 50-75 bucks for GOOD gaskets and bolts.
Percy's $30

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PHP-66011/

ARP 5/16" 12 points $20

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ARP-400-1208/

Go with ANY of these and you're under 500 clams with the exhaust hookups.

Cats? Walker High Flows for $55 each

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WLK-15038/

Plus, you get to drive to the exhaust shop OPEN HEADERS!!!!!! cheers cherry king


EDIT: Oh, and STAY AWAY from shorty headers like the ones you linked! Not only are they a total BITCH to install, but they are virtually USELESS for any real gains. Go with long tubes. Wink

For those of you keeping tract of the moolah... That's $495 WITH CATS!!!! If you go with the coated afterburners that fit like a phucking glove. That's not much more than the price of those UNCOATED SHORTIES you posted! Ad another 50-100 bucks for the exhaust shop work and you'll be a VERY happy man!

what will happen with the egr hook up if you use these headers.
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sdstick



Posts : 4275
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Location : Revere, MA

PostSubject: Re: Header Suggestions anyone?   Fri Jan 07, 2011 12:21 pm

toomanytoyz wrote:
Oh, also, you can skip buying the reducers with the o2 bungs.
Summit sells bungs for like 4 or 5 bucks a piece and you could just have someone weld them onto the ones that come with the headers to save a few bucks...
Are all bungs 18mm x 1.5 ?
FYI the link Bill gave above for the reducers w/ bungs is really EXACTLY whats shown. 1 reducer WITH bung, 1 WITHOUT
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/BIG-10120FLT/

_________________
Steve


96BBB 28K 3.42 Bolt-ons
95BBB 100K 3.73 383 New DD...already broke fixt the 4L60E twice
95 Black WB4 Hole...ee...grail
96 Black WB4 No holes in this
95BBB 189K 3.08 Old DD Stolen...by Matt. Cool
Whine..eee...Silver LS6
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mean ss



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PostSubject: Re: Header Suggestions anyone?   Fri Jan 07, 2011 1:06 pm

I do believe they are 18mm
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Machine-De-Zine



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PostSubject: Re: Header Suggestions anyone?   Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:02 pm

Just a few notes for anybody installing headers.

Having installed several brands of headers in a variety of small block powered vehicles, I have learned (the hard way) one lesson, if not several.

Always run a 3/8" coarse "plug" tap, (not taper/starter tap) into the cylinder head EX flange threaded holes. No need to drill them deeper, but the factory usually does not consistently tap deeply enough to install more than a .750" length bolt. Stuff a towel in each exhaust port to prevent metal chips from finding their way into your ring-lands. If you do hand tap the holes, you can then use the preferred 1.000" [UHL] big block Chevy header bolts. You also get 4 spare bolts, [bbc=16 bolts] & [sbc=12 bolts]

As a precaution: Measure the stacked thickness of the header flange with the weld protrusion included AND with the thickness of the solid aluminum gasket added in. If you use composition type gaskets, don't include the gasket thickness because it will definitely be crushed to nearly no thickness at all! Then hand thread the bolts you are going to use into every hole to see that they provide LESS than that amount under the head [UHL] before they bottom out. This insures that you will NOT go up solid, resulting in zero gasket crush (leaks) or risk cracking the head into the water jacket.

Also, I STRONGLY recommend using only (6) point style headed bolts, NOT (12) point. Obviously ARP stainless steel are the best choice. Often when the bolt enters the flange next to any tube whose inside radius leans in toward the bolt head, there is NO WAY to put a box wrench over the bolt head unless you hammer some clearance into the tube. It can be a nightmare, plus you can always switch to the box wrench from the open end wrench after it is seated and only needs to be torqued. There is no way to use an open end wrench on a 12 pt head.

I am pretty sure everyone on this forum knows to diligently retighten, and then retighten again, all of the header bolts for the first couple weeks after installing new headers.

This same 12 point issue holds true for many other places on the engine. Especially on aluminum intake manifolds where the runners lean over and prevent you from sliding a box wrench over the top of the bolt-head. The only thing you give up when switching to 6 point hardware is losing that cheezy-sparkly-appearance that the 12 point heads give off under shiny lights.

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toomanytoyz
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PostSubject: Re: Header Suggestions anyone?   Fri Jan 07, 2011 7:35 pm

The reason to use the 12-points is because it's a SMALLER 5/16" head, instead of the the 3/8" of the standard 6-points and you CAN get a box end on all the bolts because of it. No need for an open end. You can actually get a socket on most of them, believe it or not.

Also, I agree on using a thread cleaner/chaser (not a tap) on the bolt holes on the heads. Also, with the cheap headers, a 3/4" long bolt is fine because the header flanges are so thin. CIA headers (or other expensive ones) with the 3/8" flange require the use of the 1" long bolts.

You may have installed lots of headers on lots of small blocks, but I have installed all the headers made for (and a couple NOT made for) our cars ON our cars. Wink I'm just passing along what I know works on these particular cars. Smile

YMMV, and all that...

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PostSubject: Re: Header Suggestions anyone?   Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:34 pm

toomanytoyz wrote:
The reason to use the 12-points is because it's a SMALLER 5/16" head, instead of the the 3/8" of the standard 6-points and you CAN get a box end on all the bolts because of it. No need for an open end. You can actually get a socket on most of them, believe it or not.

Also, I agree on using a thread cleaner/chaser (not a tap) on the bolt holes on the heads. Also, with the cheap headers, a 3/4" long bolt is fine because the header flanges are so thin. CIA headers (or other expensive ones) with the 3/8" flange require the use of the 1" long bolts.

You may have installed lots of headers on lots of small blocks, but I have installed all the headers made for (and a couple NOT made for) our cars ON our cars. Wink I'm just passing along what I know works on these particular cars. Smile

YMMV, and all that...

So sorry man, The photo does CLEARLY show a 3/8" wrenching head, not the 5/16" reduced head and thats what I was referring to. I didn't bother to look up the part in the ARP Cataloq til now.

You are correct that the reduced head size does help.

However, I still prefer the 6 point for fast open end wrenching, even in the 5/16" head style.

We are constantly mounting headers on & off the dyno at work, so there are very few header makes and/or configurations we have not encountered.

Because the diligent pursuit of the most possible power is the primary agenda of our customers, large tube headers are the norm.

Consequently, we have two full drawers in our dyno room tool box filled with every imaginable header hardware option. They (the customers) are paying for our dyno time, and not another mid-day run to the speed shop for some odd-ball bolts to mount one of the 5 sets of headers they brought to us for comparative testing on their new race engine.

There are no 12 point bolts in the drawers.

Except for the special step down studs we use on the Pro-Stock headers that have 3/8" into the cylinder head and reduced 5/16" stud sticking out for a tiny 12 point flange nut. Those usually require hand made washers to work anyway, because the flange-nut is so small, it falls into the header flange bolt holes! Thats why a special washer (offset 5/16" hole with a ground flat) needs to be made, one at a time, as required.

My habit of deeper tapping heads primarily comes from problems with aluminum heads in cars that have the engines and exhaust in and out of the cars several times a season and the soft head material causes eventual stripping of the threads.

I must have repaired (with no colorful exaggerations) thousands of header bolt repairs over the nearly forty years I've been in the business. Heli-Coil, Keen-Sert, Jergens, Re-Nu-Thread, E-Z LOK, Time-sert, Love-Joy, custom hole reconstructions, solid inserts with dutchman retention, weld and re-machine, etc, you name it.

One question: Why would you NOT tap the hole with a new "known good" tap? It is superior and does not require any more skill than using a "chaser" and it can not cause any damage, unless of course the person doing the job is a complete fumbler, in which case he has no business being under the hood anyway.

At the end of the day, I am pretty sure your methods work perfectly well. I only offer my particular experiences to hopefully broaden the available options for anyone who may not yet have your skills and/or experience.

YMMV?, My milage quite definitely varies!
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chapel



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PostSubject: Re: Header Suggestions anyone?   Thu Sep 08, 2011 9:33 pm

bammax wrote:
Won't pass inspection. Visual inspection will be an automatic fail even though there's no more emission testing.

if your car is emissions exempt, there's no visual on emissions equipment (except visible smoking).
that includes catalytic converters, engine swaps to older engines, fuel delivery swaps (like going from fuel injection to carburetters)
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1984twodoor



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PostSubject: Re: Header Suggestions anyone?   Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:51 pm

chapel wrote:
bammax wrote:
Won't pass inspection. Visual inspection will be an automatic fail even though there's no more emission testing.

if your car is emissions exempt, there's no visual on emissions equipment (except visible smoking).
that includes catalytic converters, engine swaps to older engines, fuel delivery swaps (like going from fuel injection to carburetters)

LOL Ah...theres not much use in trying to talk to him. He left a while ago.
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bowtiepimp



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PostSubject: Re: Header Suggestions anyone?   Fri Sep 09, 2011 5:16 pm

What are carburetters ? scratch

.... is that like a lot lizard?




FYI......* Carburetor
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chapel



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PostSubject: Re: Header Suggestions anyone?   Fri Sep 09, 2011 5:22 pm

bowtiepimp wrote:
What are carburetters ? scratch
FYI......* Carburetor

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carburetter

Commonwealth spelling. sorry, force of habit.
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