BADASS of New England
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BADASS of New England

An automobile club for the enthusiast who enjoys the last of the big GM cars. The rear wheel drive B and D bodys. Chevrolet Impala SS, Caprice, 9C1, Buick Roadmaster, Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser, Cadillac Fleetwood
 
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Most users ever online was 182 on Thu May 27, 2021 9:57 pm
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stumped on brakes- can't get a firm pedal on the 9C1 EmptyWed Oct 19, 2022 1:27 pm by scot

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 stumped on brakes- can't get a firm pedal on the 9C1

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Ironfistdog
sdstick
FUN-9C1
7 posters
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FUN-9C1

FUN-9C1


Posts : 146
Join date : 2009-05-09
Location : lakes region, NH

stumped on brakes- can't get a firm pedal on the 9C1 Empty
PostSubject: stumped on brakes- can't get a firm pedal on the 9C1   stumped on brakes- can't get a firm pedal on the 9C1 EmptySun Jul 06, 2014 9:51 am

Bear with me while I explain the order of events here...
1. noticed spongy brakes and full (albeit a little slow) pedal travel to the floor
2. Fluid was very low, maybe 1/8" above the bottom of the resevoir
3. Could pump the brake all I wanted, no fluid leaked out
4. Although fluid was low, there was still some in there, so with no leaks to be found, replaced master cylinder and filled resevoir.
5. The new m.c. did not do $%^& except now I see an obvious leak from the line that goes from the front bottom of the pressure reg block (under the m.c.) to the top pass side of the abs block.
6. Replaced that line (went point A to point B, not down to the frame and back up), bled brakes RR to LF with a vacuum pump, brakes still spongy, brake light comes on intermittently.
7. Bled the !@#$ out of the brakes again with the same results as #6.

I read in the FSM something about an "automatic" procedure for bleeding brakes where a tool is used to open ports in the ABS system to completely bleed the system if the resevoir has been run dry, or basically, I think, if air has gotten into the "upper" part of the system upstream of the ABS stuff.

Is there a way for Joe Schmo to bleed correctly, including the ABS part, without that tool?
If not, any reason I can't bypass the ABS block? I don't have ABS anyway due to the 4.10s
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sdstick

sdstick


Posts : 4292
Join date : 2009-03-20
Location : Revere, MA

stumped on brakes- can't get a firm pedal on the 9C1 Empty
PostSubject: Re: stumped on brakes- can't get a firm pedal on the 9C1   stumped on brakes- can't get a firm pedal on the 9C1 EmptySun Jul 06, 2014 10:23 am

These cars gravity bleed... so longest line to shortest...but if you vacuum bled properly wont matter.

ABS can be deleted / bypassed

Are your pads new & pins lubed?...I only seem to get a great pedal when everythings been freshened up
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Ironfistdog

Ironfistdog


Posts : 2141
Join date : 2011-01-11
Age : 42
Location : Warren, MA

stumped on brakes- can't get a firm pedal on the 9C1 Empty
PostSubject: Re: stumped on brakes- can't get a firm pedal on the 9C1   stumped on brakes- can't get a firm pedal on the 9C1 EmptySun Jul 06, 2014 10:33 am

Did you bench bleed the master cylinder before installing?

Delete the ABS. I pulled all of mine out, no issues.
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FUN-9C1

FUN-9C1


Posts : 146
Join date : 2009-05-09
Location : lakes region, NH

stumped on brakes- can't get a firm pedal on the 9C1 Empty
PostSubject: Re: stumped on brakes- can't get a firm pedal on the 9C1   stumped on brakes- can't get a firm pedal on the 9C1 EmptySun Jul 06, 2014 10:44 am

Yes, forgot to mention, I did bench-bleed the master cylinder.
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IMPALADAKID
Admin
IMPALADAKID


Posts : 1525
Join date : 2009-01-17
Age : 55

stumped on brakes- can't get a firm pedal on the 9C1 Empty
PostSubject: Re: stumped on brakes- can't get a firm pedal on the 9C1   stumped on brakes- can't get a firm pedal on the 9C1 EmptySun Jul 06, 2014 6:22 pm

You may be able to command the ABS to open and close for proper bleed. But I have never needed to do this with our cars. If you installed a new MC, and you bench bled it, you will still have residual air. You start with the passengers rear, and bleed it till you have no air bubbles, just fluid. If using all new fluid as you are, you will know when you are done, or close by the color of the fluid. Then you do the drivers rear. Then the passengers front, followed by the drivers front. Might even want to go around one more time. Just make sure you keep the MC filled, and never let it run dry during the procedure, or you will have to start all over again. I have my wife Pump, pump, pump, hold! I break the crack the bleeder til she says floor. That lets me know to snug up the bleeder, and we start all over again. I have bled a axle once, and I have done it 5 times. Just look for clear steady fluid.
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MalibuSSwagon




Posts : 595
Join date : 2013-06-17
Age : 39
Location : Weare, NH

stumped on brakes- can't get a firm pedal on the 9C1 Empty
PostSubject: Re: stumped on brakes- can't get a firm pedal on the 9C1   stumped on brakes- can't get a firm pedal on the 9C1 EmptySun Jul 06, 2014 10:23 pm

I've never had an issue bleeding an ABS car that was ABS related. Just bleed as normal.
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Matt Trakker

Matt Trakker


Posts : 5093
Join date : 2009-07-30
Age : 42
Location : Reading, MA

stumped on brakes- can't get a firm pedal on the 9C1 Empty
PostSubject: Re: stumped on brakes- can't get a firm pedal on the 9C1   stumped on brakes- can't get a firm pedal on the 9C1 EmptySun Jul 06, 2014 11:04 pm

I think the older ABS systems with the huge aluminum block thing (like early 1990s Chevy trucks, etc.) were prone to issues from bleeding the brakes...you could suck air into that if the MC went dry, then they would hook a machine to it to cycle the pump and bleed the air out of it?

I need to do the fronts on the SS, I think the rotors are worn from it not having the brake bolt mod and it's contributing to a slightly crappy pedal feel.
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MalibuSSwagon




Posts : 595
Join date : 2013-06-17
Age : 39
Location : Weare, NH

stumped on brakes- can't get a firm pedal on the 9C1 Empty
PostSubject: Re: stumped on brakes- can't get a firm pedal on the 9C1   stumped on brakes- can't get a firm pedal on the 9C1 EmptyMon Jul 07, 2014 9:03 am

Actually Matt, that does remind me. My Dad had a similar issue with his 94 GMC truck a few years ago. The rear brake line popped and ran out of fluid. We replaced the line and could not get fluid out of it. The Master GM tech at his dealership told him there is a valve that closes when there is a sudden loss of pressure in the rear brakes to prevent total brake loss. So apparently to release this valve, get the vehicle up to 15-20 mph, and stomp the brakes. I'm talking like emergency stop. This worked for us, we were able to get fluid to the rear after stomping the brakes.
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sdstick

sdstick


Posts : 4292
Join date : 2009-03-20
Location : Revere, MA

stumped on brakes- can't get a firm pedal on the 9C1 Empty
PostSubject: Re: stumped on brakes- can't get a firm pedal on the 9C1   stumped on brakes- can't get a firm pedal on the 9C1 EmptyMon Jul 07, 2014 10:58 am

Thats not just the proportioning valve youre talking about? ...was the brake light lit?=prop valve
You dont have to emergency stop, just bring pressure to both sides to balance & turn out the light.
I dont think the ABS does strange shyt like that.
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Tomz9C1

Tomz9C1


Posts : 1498
Join date : 2009-01-21
Age : 61
Location : Rumford, Maine

stumped on brakes- can't get a firm pedal on the 9C1 Empty
PostSubject: Re: stumped on brakes- can't get a firm pedal on the 9C1   stumped on brakes- can't get a firm pedal on the 9C1 EmptyTue Jul 08, 2014 8:13 am

This may help push all the air out.
https://youtu.be/Ng_trFj9gg0
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FUN-9C1

FUN-9C1


Posts : 146
Join date : 2009-05-09
Location : lakes region, NH

stumped on brakes- can't get a firm pedal on the 9C1 Empty
PostSubject: Re: stumped on brakes- can't get a firm pedal on the 9C1   stumped on brakes- can't get a firm pedal on the 9C1 EmptyWed Aug 19, 2015 12:07 pm

I thought I would follow up with this, and I appreciate all the responses. What I did to fix the spongy brake issue was to drive it! IIRC the sponginess went away after 2-3 days of driving. So that was easy... Smile
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stumped on brakes- can't get a firm pedal on the 9C1 Empty
PostSubject: Re: stumped on brakes- can't get a firm pedal on the 9C1   stumped on brakes- can't get a firm pedal on the 9C1 Empty

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