LS Swap donors.

If any of you are thinking about it, which I have seen a fair amount of talk lately, there are some great deals out there! Many of these trucks can be had for well under $1500 and a few decent CL ads will net you back close to that in used parts sales, then scrap the rest and you are either into or almost into a free drive train...

I am also open to answering any questions on the swap that anyone may have since I've been there. Don't ask about performance mods because the baby came and we are working on building a house, so I decided this year and last year are DRIVING years instead of WORKING years. (I may also have a 2WD LS 4l60 core for sale at the end of the summer....)



This one if pretty sweet, decent mileage and 2WD so you can use the motor AND trans! (Doesn't say 4.8 or 5.3)
http://nh.craigslist.org/cto/4895330859.html

4.8, looks to be 2WD
http://nh.craigslist.org/cto/4908965405.html

Says 5.7 liter, but Im almost certain 02 2500 vans are 6.0 with 2wd LS trans...
http://nh.craigslist.org/cto/4869463763.html


Just a couple I found, I'm sure the Facebook "Real Mans Crybaby, Lowballer, D-Bag Garage Sale" has a few too.

I got an 04 3500 chevy van, 6.0/4l80e for my swap. 74k original miles. And it was for a job i did. so didn't cost me a penny really.

Pooge wrote:

Says 5.7 liter, but Im almost certain 02 2500 vans are 6.0 with 2wd LS trans...
http://nh.craigslist.org/cto/4869463763.html

2003 and up were 6.0, 2002 was the last year of the older vortec 350s

I've been on the hunt for a 6.0 lately. My 96 SS has a rod knock and it seems like such a waste of time to throw a boring LT1 back in it.

95brmw wrote:

I've been on the hunt for a 6.0 lately.  My 96 SS has a rod knock and it seems like such a waste of time to throw a boring LT1 back in it.

^^^guess you never go back huh?...^^^

If anyone has a dealer license you can purchase insurance write-offs from Co-Part auctions, they have tons of 99-07 trucks and they go cheap. Maybe hookup your fellow Badasses for a small fee.

On the vans, they are interesting. up to 2002 they still had the Vortec 305 and 350, 03-07 were LS engines but with cable throttle while the truck line switched to drive by wire in 03. All 4.8/5.3/6.0 were 24x from 99-07 (Classic) so you can mix and match parts.

I never gave much thought to it, but I think I would prefer drive by cable. Anybody else? Maybe drive by wire is better? Thoughts?

drive by cable just seems like an easier retrofit for a swap vehicle. You don't have to make a custom bracket to mount up the DBW pedal, just get a cable of the right length and hook it up. Done. Thats what I'll be doing with the C10 and the Olds.

I went with drive by cable on my olds, easy swap using the truck cable.  I had to shorted it about an inch to get the pedal right but other than that it worked perfectly.
Supposedly drive by wire is suppose to have better throttle response, but my Lucerne has that and it seems to respond the same as my other cable cars. I also read the cruise is easier to get working, I used an F-body lt1 box that plugged into my factory wiring, no real modding needed.

Yea Cruise is easier, no extra box or wiring. Also I've seen retrofits done using a 98ish 6.5L diesel electronic pedal and TAC module, since it bolts up to the firewall the same as a cable pedal. But good luck finding that in a junkyard. It's just easier and cheaper to go with a cable throttle.

Thanks for the replies on DBW vs DBC.

I too have a throttle cable on mine. I would seriously consider DBW for the next swap, simply for being cleaner install, better response, etc. I am even considering converting the Impala if I decide to go to 6.0 in the future.

Doug

Doug, I do have a question that would pertain to us NH types. How does a swap work with 1996 cars requiring the plug-in OBD2 emissions inspection? The state computer is going to be expecting to read a 1996 LT1 PCM and instead is getting plugged into a LS PCM. Does this require additional programming for the inspection to work?

California law is the bible to go by.

And they allow engine swaps as long as it's to a same year or newer engine, from the same type of class vehicle, has all emissions items in place, cats are installed, and the EVAP system is installed and operational.

I think you'll be all set in Nh

I've wondered this myself. Ct is the same way with it being the same class vehicle, but a B-body isn't the same class as a truck is it? Part of my swap decision was based on my Olds gets the sniffer test and as long as it passes that them not knowing (or giving a crap) that the engine isn't original shouldn't matter.
Another question I had with OBD II is can their test equipment detect that I had all the emissions stuff tuned out?

Well, in NH 96 and newer OBD2 cars get plugged into a computer and the computer runs emissions readiness tests to make sure all emissions systems are intact and functioning. Other than that, NH doesn't check engine casting numbers, or do a sniffer test. So dropping a truck engine into a car is no problem.

So, my worry is, how is the computer going to run the tests if it's expecting a 1996 Caprice and is instead reading a 2002 Silverado?

NH is visual along with an OBDII check.

I would think that as long as the PCM has been programmed to return the correct VIN and the OBDII port is working correctly it should not be an issue.

The Inspection computer is looking to see if the codes returned show in a ready state and if the Check engine light is working.

Last I knew you could have one component value register not ready and still pass.

Al would know better.

Lucky for me the Caprice is a 95 so It does not need to be plugged in. It's using a pre-OBDII PCM even though the motor is from 1996.

I have also heard of people using a second vehicle to trick the computer. However if what I heard is correct it now checks for a matching VIN to prevent that practice.

-D

Wow. Glad I live in MA, well, one of few reasons. I believe our "cutoff" year for emissions testing (plug in only) is '99+. My '96 9C1 and wife's '98 Taurus only have to get a safety inspection. We used to do the dynamometer load/sniffer test. Indigo has a point. California will allow newer engines in older cars, just not the reverse. But, at least in MA, they don't care or even check. No hoods popped during inspections. I realize that doesn't answer the NH question, but incase anyone from MA is wondering. Chris does inspections and knows better than I.

This is why Florida is great. There is no vehicle inspection whatsoever.

I swapped the PCM in a '97 NH car and it passed inspection. I assumed that it needed a reprogram to change the VIN but apparently not.

It varies by year here it seems. I've had cars around the 2000 area fail because of readiness monitors not being set. Last fall I took my Caddy in (96) for an emissions test and the light came on literally as I pulled into the lot. I reset it and it somehow passed. In CT they look for a light and your readiness monitors, you can only have 1 monitor not "ready". No idea if it reads the VIN.

95brmw wrote:

... In CT they look for a light and your readiness monitors, you can only have 1 monitor not "ready".....

Same in MA
What I can tell you is you have 3 attempts before they bump you to the State inspection place for flunky's
You can check readiness with a scanner to eliminate THAT as a rejection problem
So....if you want to play, you have a safety net the 1st time...I wouldnt mess around & flunk a 2nd time because it gets un-nerving after that
BTDT

MalibuSSwagon wrote:

Doug, I do have a question that would pertain to us NH types. How does a swap work with 1996 cars requiring the plug-in OBD2 emissions inspection? The state computer is going to be expecting to read a 1996 LT1 PCM and instead is getting plugged into a LS PCM. Does this require additional programming for the inspection to work?

YachtDriver wrote:

NH is visual along with an OBDII check.

I would think that as long as the PCM has been programmed to return the correct VIN and the OBDII port is working correctly it should not be an issue.

The Inspection computer is looking to see if the codes returned show in a ready state and if the Check engine light is working.

Last I knew you could have one component value register not ready and still pass.

Al would know better.

Lucky for me the Caprice is a 95 so It does not need to be plugged in. It's using a pre-OBDII PCM even though the motor is from 1996.

I have also heard of people using a second vehicle to trick the computer. However if what I heard is correct it now checks for a matching VIN to prevent that practice.

-D

My car has been inspected twice since I did the swap, both times obviously plugged in. My harness is a custom unit that plugs directly in under the passenger side dash with all engine side wiring from there. The PCM has been programmed for the correct VIN etc.

I've never even had the inspection person mention anything about the engine, and I didn't volunteer it...

Doug

So just program the car's VIN in and done? That's too easy.

That does sound too easy. I was going to hack up a home plate to cover the engine for inspections

This is why I want to run a carb for now on my old Impala if I ever had this swap done. I doubt too many would ask about it but I'm sure the carb would throw people off...I have no idea what to expect in this damned state.

Matt Trakker wrote:

This is why I want to run a carb for now on my old Impala if I ever had this swap done.  I doubt too many would ask about it but I'm sure the carb would throw people off...I have no idea what to expect in this damned state.

MA doesn't have a cut off for emissions? Here if it's 25 or old your done, sawzall those cats off!

If you run a newer engine and it's obvious...I think the law states you need to pass if the model year of the donor is not exempt? But probably not enforced often.

If you're that worried about it, toss in a TBI 350

95brmw wrote:

Matt Trakker wrote:

This is why I want to run a carb for now on my old Impala if I ever had this swap done.  I doubt too many would ask about it but I'm sure the carb would throw people off...I have no idea what to expect in this damned state.

MA doesn't have a cut off for emissions?  Here if it's 25 or old your done, sawzall those cats off!

"Model year 2001 and newer passenger cars, trucks and SUVs

Model year 2001 and newer light-duty diesel vehicles (with a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating or "GVWR" of 8,500 pounds or less)

Model year 2007 and newer medium-duty diesel vehicles (with a GVWR of 8,501 to 14,000 pounds)

Model year 2008 and newer medium-duty non-diesel vehicles (with a GVWR of 8,501 to 14,000 pounds)"

Any vehicle prior to that cutoff can fail for visible smoke.

I can't believe my Tahoe is almost exempt...what the hell?

I feel like there's some hidden clause related to swaps...but if there's nothing obvious it won't keep me from doing a swap lol

Well guys, last week I bought myself a donor truck, a half decent half wrecked 2k Silverado with a 148k mile 5.3L. Started the part-out process already, along with the planning of the swap. To that end I've been building a parts list and wiring diagram. If you guys would like I can upload a cost breakdown and complete wire harness diagrams to give you potential swappers an idea of whats involved.

MalibuSSwagon wrote:

Well guys, last week I bought myself a donor truck, a half decent half wrecked 2k Silverado with a 148k mile 5.3L. Started the part-out process already, along with the planning of the swap. To that end I've been building a parts list and wiring diagram. If you guys would like I can upload a cost breakdown and complete wire harness diagrams to give you potential swappers an idea of whats involved.

THIS. That would be super cool and helpful of you. My '96 is deserving of an LSx swap.

MASShole9C1 wrote:

MalibuSSwagon wrote:

Well guys, last week I bought myself a donor truck, a half decent half wrecked 2k Silverado with a 148k mile 5.3L. Started the part-out process already, along with the planning of the swap. To that end I've been building a parts list and wiring diagram. If you guys would like I can upload a cost breakdown and complete wire harness diagrams to give you potential swappers an idea of whats involved.

THIS. That would be super cool and helpful of you. My '96 is deserving of an LSx swap.

I agree, that's one nice 96 you have.

Give me a little time, month or two to get the swap done and I can compile an Excel document with cost breakdowns, parts list, wiring diagrams, and even pictures. This will be sort of general guide for swap vehicles, but keep in mind a few of my parts will be different, for example I am using a manual transmission. I know people are always asking for what parts to use, how much did you spend, etc; so I figure this will help.

Thanks. Sounds good to me!