BADASS of New England
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BADASS of New England

An automobile club for the enthusiast who enjoys the last of the big GM cars. The rear wheel drive B and D bodys. Chevrolet Impala SS, Caprice, 9C1, Buick Roadmaster, Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser, Cadillac Fleetwood
 
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 Stumble and surge Any ideas? My head hurts

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Ironfistdog
95brmw
silverfox103
IMPALADAKID
8 posters
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IMPALADAKID
Admin
IMPALADAKID


Posts : 1525
Join date : 2009-01-17
Age : 55

Stumble and surge Any ideas? My head hurts Empty
PostSubject: Stumble and surge Any ideas? My head hurts   Stumble and surge Any ideas? My head hurts EmptySun May 04, 2014 9:34 pm

96 OBDII LT1 143k. When I purchased it, it had a fuel temp code. What ever that is. No misfire codes, or any other codes for that matter. Stumble happens after the car has started for about a minute from cold. At light to moderate throttle, it stumbles, and will die. If I can get it to come out of it, she comes alive and leaves endless rubber. But if it dies during the stumble, I have to put the gas pedal to the floor to restart it, as it will not just start back up. Once restarted, it is back to the same. Get over that stumble hump, and she rocks. Also the RPMs are slow to come down, once you get it past that point of stalling. It will sit an idle all day long.

I have replaced the plugs, wires, intake gaskets, EGR, exhaust manifold gaskets, cleaned the TB, and MAF, replaced the air filter, and PCV valve, and oil change, and fuel filter.
Car was sitting for a year or so.
I am sure it is not a bad opti. Based on the way it restarts after stall, I think I am looking at a fuel issue, but not sure. Any ideas?
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silverfox103

silverfox103


Posts : 1540
Join date : 2009-01-25
Age : 29
Location : Littleton, NH & St. Simons Island, GA

Stumble and surge Any ideas? My head hurts Empty
PostSubject: Re: Stumble and surge Any ideas? My head hurts   Stumble and surge Any ideas? My head hurts EmptySun May 04, 2014 9:44 pm

Sounds like your fuel pump is on the way out, atleast that's the symptom that I had.

Tom
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95brmw

95brmw


Posts : 1434
Join date : 2009-11-10
Age : 39
Location : Connecticut

Stumble and surge Any ideas? My head hurts Empty
PostSubject: Re: Stumble and surge Any ideas? My head hurts   Stumble and surge Any ideas? My head hurts EmptySun May 04, 2014 9:48 pm

What was the actual code you got? Sounds like the coolant temp sensor isn't working, my 9C1 would do stuff like that at times when the wiring was damaged on my sensor. Start the car and mess with the wiring on the sensor, try unplugging it and see if anything changes.
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IMPALADAKID
Admin
IMPALADAKID


Posts : 1525
Join date : 2009-01-17
Age : 55

Stumble and surge Any ideas? My head hurts Empty
PostSubject: Re: Stumble and surge Any ideas? My head hurts   Stumble and surge Any ideas? My head hurts EmptySun May 04, 2014 10:06 pm

silverfox103 wrote:
Sounds like your fuel pump is on the way out, atleast that's the symptom that I had.

Tom
I have a new one sitting on the shelf. It sounds like it is time to install it. Thanks

95brmw wrote:
What was the actual code you got?  Sounds like the coolant temp sensor isn't working, my 9C1 would do stuff like that at times when the wiring was damaged on my sensor.  Start the car and mess with the wiring on the sensor, try unplugging it and see if anything changes.
I can not remember other than is said fuel temp, and not coolant temp. I am not getting any current codes but the wire connector to the temp sensor is taped to the sensor, so it is worth a looksee. Thanks.
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Ironfistdog

Ironfistdog


Posts : 2141
Join date : 2011-01-11
Age : 42
Location : Warren, MA

Stumble and surge Any ideas? My head hurts Empty
PostSubject: Re: Stumble and surge Any ideas? My head hurts   Stumble and surge Any ideas? My head hurts EmptySun May 04, 2014 10:13 pm

Did you try checking the TPS?
What about the idle air control pintle?

I had a problem like this and it ended up being the IAC .

The RPM's coming down slowly is what makes me think a problem with the tps or iac, or maybe even a sticking air foil in the TB (even though it was just cleaned)
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No Moa

No Moa


Posts : 3893
Join date : 2009-02-21
Age : 51
Location : Midcoast Maine

Stumble and surge Any ideas? My head hurts Empty
PostSubject: Re: Stumble and surge Any ideas? My head hurts   Stumble and surge Any ideas? My head hurts EmptyMon May 05, 2014 12:48 pm

I want to see "endless rubber"
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http://www.collectorfbody.com
sdstick

sdstick


Posts : 4292
Join date : 2009-03-20
Location : Revere, MA

Stumble and surge Any ideas? My head hurts Empty
PostSubject: Re: Stumble and surge Any ideas? My head hurts   Stumble and surge Any ideas? My head hurts EmptyWed May 07, 2014 8:27 am

Pay attention...... Cool 

IMPALADAKID wrote:
Stumble and surge Any ideas? My head hurts 20140413

If he took the pic in the other direction you'd see the rubber turn up the street & slowly fade into the sunset...endless...ly
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No Moa

No Moa


Posts : 3893
Join date : 2009-02-21
Age : 51
Location : Midcoast Maine

Stumble and surge Any ideas? My head hurts Empty
PostSubject: Re: Stumble and surge Any ideas? My head hurts   Stumble and surge Any ideas? My head hurts EmptyWed May 07, 2014 8:39 am

Bullsh!t everyone knows a BBB impala can only burn non endless rubber unless the tranny blows up.
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http://www.collectorfbody.com
tonyc712000

tonyc712000


Posts : 126
Join date : 2013-10-04
Location : Ct.

Stumble and surge Any ideas? My head hurts Empty
PostSubject: Re: Stumble and surge Any ideas? My head hurts   Stumble and surge Any ideas? My head hurts EmptyWed May 07, 2014 12:46 pm

Stumble and surge....sounds like me 'some' beers.... bounce 
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toomanytoyz
Club President
toomanytoyz


Posts : 6876
Join date : 2009-01-20
Age : 47
Location : East Hampstead, NH USA

Stumble and surge Any ideas? My head hurts Empty
PostSubject: Re: Stumble and surge Any ideas? My head hurts   Stumble and surge Any ideas? My head hurts EmptyWed May 07, 2014 8:58 pm

So any luck with coolant temp sensor?
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http://impalass.uniquekind.net/
IMPALADAKID
Admin
IMPALADAKID


Posts : 1525
Join date : 2009-01-17
Age : 55

Stumble and surge Any ideas? My head hurts Empty
PostSubject: Re: Stumble and surge Any ideas? My head hurts   Stumble and surge Any ideas? My head hurts EmptyWed May 07, 2014 9:02 pm

toomanytoyz wrote:
So any luck with coolant temp sensor?
I have not touched the car other than to clean it, and wax it. I will disconnect the sensor this weekend, and see if the fans come on. I may just go ahead and replace the pump, and strainer since the car sat so long, and with ethanol, I have no idea what kind of damage that can do to an old fuel system.
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IMPALADAKID
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IMPALADAKID


Posts : 1525
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Age : 55

Stumble and surge Any ideas? My head hurts Empty
PostSubject: Re: Stumble and surge Any ideas? My head hurts   Stumble and surge Any ideas? My head hurts EmptyFri May 09, 2014 7:39 pm

So today, I started the car. The RPMs are at 1500-1800 at idle, and will not come down. I disconnected the w/p temp sensor, and both fans came on, after reconnect both turned off. I also disconnected the IAC valve, and none of the syptoms changed either way. In fact nothing happened. So I was leaning toward an faulty IAC valve, but I am not sure. Also I have to put the throttle to the floor to get it started after a stall to get it to start. Once started any touch of the throttle will cause it to stumble and die, unless I feather the throttle to get it above 2k rpms.
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Ironfistdog

Ironfistdog


Posts : 2141
Join date : 2011-01-11
Age : 42
Location : Warren, MA

Stumble and surge Any ideas? My head hurts Empty
PostSubject: Re: Stumble and surge Any ideas? My head hurts   Stumble and surge Any ideas? My head hurts EmptyFri May 09, 2014 8:16 pm

My money is still on the IAC.

I wanna say that the impala and caprice have a DIFFERENT part number for this part. I remember asking at the store and they said it was 2 different numbers.
Make sure to ask specifically for an impala IAC.

You can take the iac out of the throttle body and plug it in then have your wife or someone turn the key to ON.
You should see the pintle adjust itself.

I ( against the advice of certain "killers") use my thumb to gently rock the pintle back and forth until it bottoms out. If you can't move it at all then it's J-U-N-K.

No spares to try and swap in ??
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IMPALADAKID
Admin
IMPALADAKID


Posts : 1525
Join date : 2009-01-17
Age : 55

Stumble and surge Any ideas? My head hurts Empty
PostSubject: Re: Stumble and surge Any ideas? My head hurts   Stumble and surge Any ideas? My head hurts EmptyFri May 09, 2014 8:30 pm

Ironfistdog wrote:
My money is still on the IAC.

I wanna say that the impala and caprice have a DIFFERENT part number for this part. I remember asking at the store and they said it was 2 different numbers.
Make sure to ask specifically for an impala IAC.

You can take the iac out of the throttle body and plug it in then have your wife or someone turn the key to ON.
You should see the pintle adjust itself.

I ( against the advice of certain "killers") use my thumb to gently rock the pintle back and forth until it bottoms out. If you can't move it at all then it's J-U-N-K.

No spares to try and swap in ??
No spares.
So I spent a little more time with it to get some real numbers. When I start it, it goes up to 1800 rpm, and comes down to 1000 rpm. If I lightly aply throttle it will go up without stumble. If I push anything other than very lightly the rpms drop to 500, then play catch up. If it dies during a stumble, I have to hold the throttle to the floor. And no matter what, the rpms never drop like they should. They gradually drop, unless it is stumbling. Then they drop like a rock. I am ruling out the IAC, TPS, and temp sensor, as they check to be working properly. Still no CEL
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Ironfistdog

Ironfistdog


Posts : 2141
Join date : 2011-01-11
Age : 42
Location : Warren, MA

Stumble and surge Any ideas? My head hurts Empty
PostSubject: Re: Stumble and surge Any ideas? My head hurts   Stumble and surge Any ideas? My head hurts EmptySat May 10, 2014 9:42 am

Ok. So let's move onto something new.

The car did this from the day you bought it? Or just started happening?
When you did the intake gasket you hooked everything back up? Like the egr tube and all the vac lines? ( don't laugh I actually forgot to hook up the egr pipe one time)

What about the butterfly's in the tb? Are they free moving? No binding? No carbon on the backside?

The return spring is good on the TB? Not getting hooked on anything?

What about the gas pedal linkage to the tb?
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IMPALADAKID
Admin
IMPALADAKID


Posts : 1525
Join date : 2009-01-17
Age : 55

Stumble and surge Any ideas? My head hurts Empty
PostSubject: Re: Stumble and surge Any ideas? My head hurts   Stumble and surge Any ideas? My head hurts EmptySat May 10, 2014 8:04 pm

Ironfistdog wrote:
Ok. So let's move onto something new.

The car did this from the day you bought it? Or just started happening?
When you did the intake gasket you hooked everything back up? Like the egr tube and all the vac lines? ( don't laugh I actually forgot to hook up the egr pipe one time)

What about the butterfly's in the tb? Are they free moving? No binding? No carbon on the backside?

The return spring is good on the TB? Not getting hooked on anything?

What about the gas pedal linkage to the tb?
Been doing it since day one. But today I found the issue. After checking the fuel pressure, and finding it to be perfect, I moved on to places I had already looked. Bill and Dave mentioned the ECT in the water pump, but I shrugged it off. I was wrong because that is exactly what it was. Replacing the intake, and exhaust manifold gaskets improved it immensely, but did not fix it totally. But once the new ECT was replaced, all the issues disappeared, and it runs as it should now.

Thanks to everyone for the great advice. Arrow


Last edited by IMPALADAKID on Mon May 12, 2014 8:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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silverfox103

silverfox103


Posts : 1540
Join date : 2009-01-25
Age : 29
Location : Littleton, NH & St. Simons Island, GA

Stumble and surge Any ideas? My head hurts Empty
PostSubject: Re: Stumble and surge Any ideas? My head hurts   Stumble and surge Any ideas? My head hurts EmptyMon May 12, 2014 8:13 am

Dave hit the nail on the head! I guess with all those cars he has, he has a lot of repair experience.

Tom
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IMPALADAKID
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IMPALADAKID


Posts : 1525
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Age : 55

Stumble and surge Any ideas? My head hurts Empty
PostSubject: Re: Stumble and surge Any ideas? My head hurts   Stumble and surge Any ideas? My head hurts EmptyMon May 12, 2014 8:08 pm

Yes he did. I kept shrugging it off because I thought with OBD2, the light would have come back on if their was a running issue that bad. And the original code was for low fuel temp. I am not even sure what that means, but now I know where to look if I see it again.
Thanks to everyone for the advise, and jokes. I like jokes. jocolor
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95brmw

95brmw


Posts : 1434
Join date : 2009-11-10
Age : 39
Location : Connecticut

Stumble and surge Any ideas? My head hurts Empty
PostSubject: Re: Stumble and surge Any ideas? My head hurts   Stumble and surge Any ideas? My head hurts EmptyMon May 12, 2014 10:54 pm

Glad you got it going, isn't it really annoying when a tiny part causes all kinds of headaches?
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