BADASS of New England

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 How long does my trans have left?

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MalibuSSwagon



Posts : 576
Join date : 2013-06-17
Age : 32
Location : Weare, NH

PostSubject: How long does my trans have left?   Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:39 pm

So picked up my OCC today. I noticed whenever it drops out of overdrive it clunks pretty hard. So did a little searching and found if it takes longer than a second to engage reverse, it's got problems. Well it does just that, it's quite a delay engaging reverse. Haven't checked the fluid yet.

Thoughts? Ideas? I'd like to get at least 2 years out of the drivetrain, then I can drop the coin on a TKO.

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sdstick



Posts : 4278
Join date : 2009-03-20
Location : Revere, MA

PostSubject: Re: How long does my trans have left?   Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:27 am

Havent checked the fluid yet?

uummm.....ya....find time for that

Clunking & slow reverse happens....it can last just dont put your foot into it while its trying to shift

_________________
Steve


96BBB 28K 3.42 Bolt-ons
95BBB 100K 3.73 383 New DD...already broke fixt the 4L60E twice
95 Black WB4 Hole...ee...grail
96 Black WB4 No holes in this
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MalibuSSwagon



Posts : 576
Join date : 2013-06-17
Age : 32
Location : Weare, NH

PostSubject: Re: How long does my trans have left?   Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:37 am

Well I literally just got it home yesterday. Andddd of course my gf stole it to go to work today while I do the t-belt package on her Acura.

It's tough to keep your foot out of it up here in hill country.

Last dumb question, how do I check the fluid? When it's hot and running? This is the first automatic car I've owned, I've only had manuals since I was 16 up to now, at 29.
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sdstick



Posts : 4278
Join date : 2009-03-20
Location : Revere, MA

PostSubject: Re: How long does my trans have left?   Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:54 am

Yes, hot & running
Odds are its just miles not fluid

_________________
Steve


96BBB 28K 3.42 Bolt-ons
95BBB 100K 3.73 383 New DD...already broke fixt the 4L60E twice
95 Black WB4 Hole...ee...grail
96 Black WB4 No holes in this
95BBB 189K 3.08 Old DD Stolen...by Matt. Cool
Whine..eee...Silver LS6
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MalibuSSwagon



Posts : 576
Join date : 2013-06-17
Age : 32
Location : Weare, NH

PostSubject: Re: How long does my trans have left?   Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:30 pm

Well checked the fluid, it's up to the hot area on the dipstick, but it's brownish.  Neutral  super.
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sdstick



Posts : 4278
Join date : 2009-03-20
Location : Revere, MA

PostSubject: Re: How long does my trans have left?   Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:34 pm

My neighborhood mechanic hooks up to the cooler lines & powerflushes (so to speak) the entire system

Think I'd give that a try before anything else. Think you could get the top cooler line off the radiator?

Dont know what the machines called but I could find out if you cant.

_________________
Steve


96BBB 28K 3.42 Bolt-ons
95BBB 100K 3.73 383 New DD...already broke fixt the 4L60E twice
95 Black WB4 Hole...ee...grail
96 Black WB4 No holes in this
95BBB 189K 3.08 Old DD Stolen...by Matt. Cool
Whine..eee...Silver LS6
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MalibuSSwagon



Posts : 576
Join date : 2013-06-17
Age : 32
Location : Weare, NH

PostSubject: Re: How long does my trans have left?   Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:37 pm

I'm usually afraid of pulling old fittings apart but the underhood of this car is really corrosion free. I'll give it a try later this week.
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1984twodoor



Posts : 4059
Join date : 2010-03-30
Age : 23
Location : Wilmington/Wakefield/Andover

PostSubject: Re: How long does my trans have left?   Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:54 pm

sdstick wrote:
My neighborhood mechanic hooks up to the cooler lines & powerflushes (so to speak) the entire system

Think I'd give that a try before anything else. Think you could get the top cooler line off the radiator?

Dont know what the machines called but I could find out if you cant.

some brands are actually called powerflusers  Laughing 

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MASShole9C1



Posts : 4211
Join date : 2009-12-16

PostSubject: Re: How long does my trans have left?   Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:57 pm

Brown? That doesn't sound good. I would just bring it somewhere for a fresh fluid swap and filter. Drive around a little while, and do another. Costly? Yes. Worth the cost over a bad trans and undriveable car? You bet. An ounce of prevention...

Whenever I get a "new to me" car, I always change fluids and filters. No matter what the previous owner says. Takes me a few trips to get it all done and paid for, but I won't have broken or overheated friction parts.
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MalibuSSwagon



Posts : 576
Join date : 2013-06-17
Age : 32
Location : Weare, NH

PostSubject: Re: How long does my trans have left?   Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:19 pm

it looked brownish but I'll check it again in the daylight. damn automatics.....
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95brmw



Posts : 1431
Join date : 2009-11-10
Age : 32
Location : Connecticut

PostSubject: Re: How long does my trans have left?   Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:50 am

You can try flushing it as done ins the procedure below. My 9C1 would slip out of gear when I bought it and had bad smelling brown fluid in it. I flushed it out and so far have logged 10k on it with no other issues. Not saying it will fix yours but its worth a shot.
http://www.impalassforum.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?p=2193123
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Cadet57



Posts : 4476
Join date : 2010-03-14
Age : 29
Location : Chicopee, MA

PostSubject: Re: How long does my trans have left?   Thu Jan 23, 2014 10:28 am

95brmw wrote:
You can try flushing it as done ins the procedure below.  My 9C1 would slip out of gear when I bought it and had bad smelling brown fluid in it.  I flushed it out and so far have logged 10k on it with no other issues.  Not saying it will fix yours but its worth a shot.
http://www.impalassforum.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?p=2193123

It's a 305/2:56 car. Would it even have cooler lines?
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sdstick



Posts : 4278
Join date : 2009-03-20
Location : Revere, MA

PostSubject: Re: How long does my trans have left?   Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:48 pm

Thats my bad....I only talk LT1

Either way, powerflush or drop the pan....it may very well stop old age/negligence issues

Options are limited at this point anyway....either a HUGE PIA or relatively expensive


_________________
Steve


96BBB 28K 3.42 Bolt-ons
95BBB 100K 3.73 383 New DD...already broke fixt the 4L60E twice
95 Black WB4 Hole...ee...grail
96 Black WB4 No holes in this
95BBB 189K 3.08 Old DD Stolen...by Matt. Cool
Whine..eee...Silver LS6
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95brmw



Posts : 1431
Join date : 2009-11-10
Age : 32
Location : Connecticut

PostSubject: Re: How long does my trans have left?   Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:11 pm

Cadet57 wrote:
95brmw wrote:
You can try flushing it as done ins the procedure below.  My 9C1 would slip out of gear when I bought it and had bad smelling brown fluid in it.  I flushed it out and so far have logged 10k on it with no other issues.  Not saying it will fix yours but its worth a shot.
http://www.impalassforum.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?p=2193123

It's a 305/2:56 car. Would it even have cooler lines?

I believe all of them had that, it wouldn't have the aux cooler outside the radiator though.
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Machine-De-Zine



Posts : 512
Join date : 2010-11-16
Age : 60
Location : Wrentham

PostSubject: Re: How long does my trans have left?   Sat Jan 25, 2014 4:56 am

I can't see any down side to doing all of the following:
dropping/draining the trans pan,
looking for any debris field in the bottom of the pan,
cleaning out the pan, changing the filter,
power flushing out the torque converter, trans cooler lines and radiator tank cooler,
adding the correct amount of high quality ATF,
and then adding your choice of one of the very excellent LubeGard friction modifiers.
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Tomz9C1



Posts : 1486
Join date : 2009-01-21
Age : 53
Location : Rumford, Maine

PostSubject: Re: How long does my trans have left?   Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:13 pm

MalibuSSwagon wrote:
Well checked the fluid, it's up to the hot area on the dipstick, but it's brownish.  Neutral  super.
Rebuild it soon if you plan on keeping it.
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MalibuSSwagon



Posts : 576
Join date : 2013-06-17
Age : 32
Location : Weare, NH

PostSubject: Re: How long does my trans have left?   Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:38 pm

I plan on keeping the car, not the transmission. haha.

Yea I plan on getting a filter/gasket set, dropping the pan and changing the fluid a few times. How much atf do I need? A case?
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Bull



Posts : 222
Join date : 2012-09-22
Location : Western MA

PostSubject: Re: How long does my trans have left?   Sat Jan 25, 2014 4:38 pm

Machine-De-Zine wrote:
I can't see any down side to doing all of the following:
dropping/draining the trans pan,
looking for any debris field in the bottom of the pan,
cleaning out the pan, changing the filter,
power flushing out the torque converter, trans cooler lines and radiator tank cooler,
adding the correct amount of high quality ATF,
and then adding your choice of one of the very excellent LubeGard friction modifiers.

I started a thread on another site about an issue my trans is having. My fluid is dirty looking, certainly.

One fellow commented that a fluid flush can be the kiss of death. He claimed that the grit in dirty fluid can act as the friction material in a worn trans, and that if you flush it the trans can perform even worse.

Any truth to this?
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MalibuSSwagon



Posts : 576
Join date : 2013-06-17
Age : 32
Location : Weare, NH

PostSubject: Re: How long does my trans have left?   Sat Jan 25, 2014 4:48 pm

Bull wrote:
Machine-De-Zine wrote:
I can't see any down side to doing all of the following:
dropping/draining the trans pan,
looking for any debris field in the bottom of the pan,
cleaning out the pan, changing the filter,
power flushing out the torque converter, trans cooler lines and radiator tank cooler,
adding the correct amount of high quality ATF,
and then adding your choice of one of the very excellent LubeGard friction modifiers.

I started a thread on another site about an issue my trans is having.  My fluid is dirty looking, certainly.

One fellow commented that a fluid flush can be the kiss of death.  He claimed that the grit in dirty fluid can act as the friction material in a worn trans, and that if you flush it the trans can perform even worse.

Any truth to this?


I've heard similar stories regarding power flushing machines, that they kill worn transmissions. I'll just be doing a filter change/drain refill.
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MASShole9C1



Posts : 4211
Join date : 2009-12-16

PostSubject: Re: How long does my trans have left?   Sat Jan 25, 2014 5:21 pm

MalibuSSwagon wrote:
Bull wrote:
Machine-De-Zine wrote:
I can't see any down side to doing all of the following:
dropping/draining the trans pan,
looking for any debris field in the bottom of the pan,
cleaning out the pan, changing the filter,
power flushing out the torque converter, trans cooler lines and radiator tank cooler,
adding the correct amount of high quality ATF,
and then adding your choice of one of the very excellent LubeGard friction modifiers.

I started a thread on another site about an issue my trans is having.  My fluid is dirty looking, certainly.

One fellow commented that a fluid flush can be the kiss of death.  He claimed that the grit in dirty fluid can act as the friction material in a worn trans, and that if you flush it the trans can perform even worse.

Any truth to this?


I've heard similar stories regarding power flushing machines, that they kill worn transmissions. I'll just be doing a filter change/drain refill.

This is very true.

Well in this case, you're nickle and diming yourself until it goes on long enough to cause the inevitable catastrophic failure. Been there, done that. 10 hours to swap a trans in a driveway in a storm with only 2 jack stands and a floor jack.

Putting a bandaid on a broken leg is only gonna cost you more in the end.

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95brmw



Posts : 1431
Join date : 2009-11-10
Age : 32
Location : Connecticut

PostSubject: Re: How long does my trans have left?   Sat Jan 25, 2014 5:35 pm

I've heard the same about power flushes, happened to one of my co-workers. He had it done on his Regal with 150k on it, trans died within 3k miles.
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silverfox103



Posts : 1475
Join date : 2009-01-25
Age : 21
Location : Littleton, NH & St. Simons Island, GA

PostSubject: Re: How long does my trans have left?   Sat Jan 25, 2014 6:59 pm

As has been said, power flushes on tranny's with mileage on them, is the kiss of death.

Tom
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Matt Trakker



Posts : 5075
Join date : 2009-07-30
Age : 35
Location : Reading, MA

PostSubject: Re: How long does my trans have left?   Sat Jan 25, 2014 7:24 pm

My tranny in the SS went with absolutely no warning (at least I'm 99 percent sure the 3rd gear clutch blew), it went great the whole last year I was driving the car.  

That being said, I'd just drive it and get the use you can out of it, if it goes, it goes...then deal with it at that point.   Razz If it only had like 30K miles and was a newer car my opinion might be different...but if you do all this work and it still craps out, you just lost all the money in parts, labor, and most importantly, time!
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MalibuSSwagon



Posts : 576
Join date : 2013-06-17
Age : 32
Location : Weare, NH

PostSubject: Re: How long does my trans have left?   Sat Jan 25, 2014 7:34 pm

Well I'll just do the fluid change as it seems like my only option besides pulling the trans and rebuilding it. I've started babying it anyhow, I put it in D on hilly backroads to avoid hard shifts out of overdrive. No point in rebuilding it now as it's still good, no slipping. It's only got 94k miles.  Sad 

When the time comes I'll just spend the money on a 5 speed instead.  Very Happy 
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Machine-De-Zine



Posts : 512
Join date : 2010-11-16
Age : 60
Location : Wrentham

PostSubject: Re: How long does my trans have left?   Sun Jan 26, 2014 8:03 am

…..

On the flushing of old transmission fluid being the cause for "the Kiss of Death" syndrome...

I've heard that said in many ways, many times, and I can't say that its not true some indeterminable percentage of the time.

So if a flush, filter and fluid change might hasten the demise of your A/T (automatic transmission) more so than leaving it alone, then perhaps you should just baby along it until you put in the M/T (manual trans).

I imagine that many people who had flushed.. then sooner than they expected had a failure, simply needed something to blame the unhappy result on, but who can say how long these trannys would've lasted if left alone?

There can be no conclusive answer, no control in these instances for direct comparison.

It seems that many of these individuals finally changed fluid only when various symptoms of imminent failure started to rear their ugly heads anyway.

Also, if this grippy/gritty stuff suspended and circulating throughout in old/bad fluid is left in there, it could certainly play it's part in the ruining of many "hard parts" that might otherwise have been re-used in a proper re-build.

If the flush alone brought on an immediate failure, then that transmission was obviously in serious need of re-building.  

…..

I do have first-hand experience supporting the concept that a frictionally marginalized automatic transmission often can have an extended lease on life with the use of an appropriately selected formulation of LubeGard, or something similar when added to fresh ATF and a filter change.

Having bought my 94 turbo inter-cooled Volvo 940 wagon with a new engine and the original old transmission filled with never serviced A/T fluid - already with 100K on the clock,

I was advised by three trusted tranny experts to leave it alone, and given the same cautious warnings in avoidance of sudden "kiss of death" syndrome.

That Volvo trans would always slip noticeably at full boost in high gear.

Then 30K later a road hazard tore open the pan, dumped all the fluid and also sheered off the bell-housing to engine block bolts!

A quick peek underneath convinced me that I unavoidably needed a replacement transmission.

I pressed on, and it limped and slipped until it would no longer move an inch in any gear, so I pushed it the rest of the way home, repaired it, installed new pan, fill tube, ATF & filter only.

After that it drove, but not very well, especially in higher gears, and certainly never with any boost.

Added LubeGard and babied it for a week or so, and now that same "failed" transmission is still going strong 80K later. I add a black bottle of LubeGard at each service now.

Today, the only time I sense even slight slip is when carrying 5 passengers while overloaded with cargo, and then only at full turbo boost on the expressway!

With well over 200K, and considering the potentially near catastrophic incidents along the way, it has still never been apart.

I recall several other cases (Hydramatics) where this additive (friction modifier) has given one of my distressed automatic transmissions a helping hand, but stating those cases will just be repeating essentially what this Volvo story revealed.

Note: I'm reasonably sure that this family of friction modifying additives has certain transmission defects for which they will not make some improvement.  

…..

What has always worked for me regarding the preventive maintenance on my own personal vehicles, has been to change the fluid in any automatic transmission whose fluid age and condition is unknown, and subsequently letting results and/or repercussions emerge as they may.

This strategy may not please everyone, particularly if they do this and wind up with an immobile car that will cost beaucoup cash to make roadworthy.
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sdstick



Posts : 4278
Join date : 2009-03-20
Location : Revere, MA

PostSubject: Re: How long does my trans have left?   Sun Jan 26, 2014 9:14 am

Machine-De-Zine wrote:
…..


There can be no conclusive answer, no control in these instances for direct comparison.

....

If the flush alone brought on an immediate failure, then that transmission was obviously in serious need of re-building.  


I'm glad you said that cuz I've powerflushed high mileage transmissions with no problems
Never believed that failure theory
Had the TPS go just after a tranny flush....wanted to blame the powerflush for destroying my tranny THEN too. Smile


Machine-De-Zine wrote:
…..
Today, the only time I sense even slight slip is when carrying 5 passengers while overloaded with cargo, and then only at full turbo boost on the expressway!
 



Note to self...... Razz

_________________
Steve


96BBB 28K 3.42 Bolt-ons
95BBB 100K 3.73 383 New DD...already broke fixt the 4L60E twice
95 Black WB4 Hole...ee...grail
96 Black WB4 No holes in this
95BBB 189K 3.08 Old DD Stolen...by Matt. Cool
Whine..eee...Silver LS6
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MalibuSSwagon



Posts : 576
Join date : 2013-06-17
Age : 32
Location : Weare, NH

PostSubject: Re: How long does my trans have left?   Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:20 pm

Well, I got it done. Too cold for this shit but I did it anyhow. Dropped the pan, changed the filter and fluid. The stuff that came out was black and there was a 1/4" of metallic goo on the pan magnet. We'll see if gets better, it was starting to randomly clunk when shifting out of lower gears too.
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sdstick



Posts : 4278
Join date : 2009-03-20
Location : Revere, MA

PostSubject: Re: How long does my trans have left?   Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:37 pm

You really want to do it a couple of times (minimum) because the convertor & coolant lines still have fluid suspending clutch material
Was there clutch residue on the bottom of the pan to I assume?...like a coating of "not fluid"?
Once is better then none tho...not much better...but better
If it starts acting correctly....change fluid once more

I'm smerking a little cuz I just dropped my pan today & saw the same bad news...

Did you check your U joints?

_________________
Steve


96BBB 28K 3.42 Bolt-ons
95BBB 100K 3.73 383 New DD...already broke fixt the 4L60E twice
95 Black WB4 Hole...ee...grail
96 Black WB4 No holes in this
95BBB 189K 3.08 Old DD Stolen...by Matt. Cool
Whine..eee...Silver LS6
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MalibuSSwagon



Posts : 576
Join date : 2013-06-17
Age : 32
Location : Weare, NH

PostSubject: Re: How long does my trans have left?   Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:57 pm

Well good news, there was no film buildup on the bottom of the plan, just the goo on the magnet. Also, after I was done, it engaged reverse immediately when I shifted into it. We'll see how the ride to school goes tonight.

Didn't check my u-joints, I was already frozen from working outside.
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sdstick



Posts : 4278
Join date : 2009-03-20
Location : Revere, MA

PostSubject: Re: How long does my trans have left?   Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:30 pm

Might explain the clunking

Change it one more time....PIA I know buit saves you 100's

_________________
Steve


96BBB 28K 3.42 Bolt-ons
95BBB 100K 3.73 383 New DD...already broke fixt the 4L60E twice
95 Black WB4 Hole...ee...grail
96 Black WB4 No holes in this
95BBB 189K 3.08 Old DD Stolen...by Matt. Cool
Whine..eee...Silver LS6
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MalibuSSwagon



Posts : 576
Join date : 2013-06-17
Age : 32
Location : Weare, NH

PostSubject: Re: How long does my trans have left?   Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:14 pm

much smoother and doesn't clunk as hard coming out of overdrive now.
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