BADASS of New England

An automobile club for the enthusiast who enjoys the last of the big GM cars. The rear wheel drive B and D bodys. Chevrolet Impala SS, Caprice, 9C1, Buick Roadmaster, Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser, Cadillac Fleetwood
 
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 brakes? Lines rusty, broken lines.....

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cctrack78



Posts : 36
Join date : 2012-03-19
Location : saugus, MA

PostSubject: brakes? Lines rusty, broken lines.....   Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:10 pm

So I had a line go and went to look at the others and there are two other rusty ones so I'm pulling those too, at some point someone had replaced a couple with the copper alloy ones so those look good. My question is what sort of things should I be looking out for? Common mistakes? I'm planning on getting more "copper" ones to replace the rusted ones. Another thing this is for a 95 roadmaster wagon. The rear is one of the shot lines that I am going to replace, where does it end? I'm sure I will find it, but does any body have schematics or diagrams of the brakes lines. Also after I get these new lines in do I just fill the master and bleed in a particular order. I'm new to this, so I'm taking it one step at a time. Thanks I appreciate your input(s) as always.
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IMPALADAKID
Admin


Posts : 1512
Join date : 2009-01-17
Age : 48

PostSubject: Re: brakes? Lines rusty, broken lines.....   Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:20 pm

Bleeding sequence.

1. Pass rear
2. Drivers rear
3. Pass front
4. Drivers front

Loosen bleeder, then snug it up. Have someone in drivers seat ready, and yell Pump, Pump, Hold. Crack bleeder, and close. Repeat till only fluid comes out. Then tighten bleeder back. After each wheel is done, fill reservoir to keep from running dry.

_________________
2014 Chevrolet Silverado LTZ Z71 5.3 Aluminum V8 (My daily)
2007 Pontiac G6 VL 2.4 I4 (Wife's Daily)
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cctrack78



Posts : 36
Join date : 2012-03-19
Location : saugus, MA

PostSubject: Re: brakes? Lines rusty, broken lines.....   Sun Jan 12, 2014 10:29 pm


Thanks. I wonder if my 5 year old can reach the brake pedal?!
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Machine-De-Zine



Posts : 512
Join date : 2010-11-16
Age : 60
Location : Wrentham

PostSubject: Re: brakes? Lines rusty, broken lines.....   Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:21 am

I hope the line that was installed previously as a repair was not plain copper, like what is used on fuel oil delivery lines on home heating tanks & burners.

Don't laugh, I've seen that potentially deadly mistake before.

I'm thinking that the lines you are referring to are CuNiFer, (or a differently branded variation thereof) originally developed by Volvo in the early 70's to fight against the very problems you're experiencing now.

These very malleable Copper-Nickel-Ferrous lines can be properly flared and still contain panic stop brake fluid pressure spikes.

Some very qualified mechanics don't like this CuNiFer material due to it's very soft state. This also means that technically (perhaps even legally) it is not supposed to be reinstalled after its been snugged up once!

Dead soft annealed plain Copper piping is strictly intended for low pressure applications, and is also prone to work hardening induced rupture failures.

It is not DOT approved for braking usage, but CuNiFer is legal and approved for cars and trucks on US roads.

Std DOT ferrous piping is double-wall mild steel that is two layers of one continuous piece of sheet steel rolled and furnace solder-brazed and then coated with anti-corrossion inhibiting "paint" or plating.

I have had the best luck with solid annealed stainless steel piping, but it can be a bear to double flare with simple hand powered flare forming tools!

Also note; do not patch in repairs using compression unions, (even with the correct DOT piping) you must use ISO metric bubble flares or USA inch double flares to join pipes and fittings.

I have a 95 RoadMaster sitting here with a rotted (failed) line running from the ABS unit to the flex-pipe fitting above the rear axle.

This is the very long rear run pipe, and it travels from the ABS unit over the steering gear box, then along the left frame rail all the way back to the center of the rear "over-axle" cross-member.

You'll have a better time using flare-nut wrenches on the fittings,,,

and pay close attention to thread pitch and sizes and flare shapes, as there are some inch, and some metric on these cars,,, some ISO bubble, and some US Inch double flares!

If you need, I will specify which fitting is which, and where they are located regarding their thread sizes and flare style.
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cctrack78



Posts : 36
Join date : 2012-03-19
Location : saugus, MA

PostSubject: Re: brakes? Lines rusty, broken lines.....   Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:33 pm

so getting at the line to the rear, is proving to be quite a chore, any tips? Trade secrets.
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sdstick



Posts : 4278
Join date : 2009-03-20
Location : Revere, MA

PostSubject: Re: brakes? Lines rusty, broken lines.....   Mon Jan 13, 2014 6:55 pm

Remove the lower shock mounts & buy as much access OVER the diff as possible (watch out for self leveling if applicable)

That connection is usually the biggest problem ....if you have all the replacement line, you may want to cut the existing to use a socket

All the way down the frame rail the line just clips into a plastic retainer...that parts easy

Good luck....(sure you cant just splice right?)

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Steve


96BBB 28K 3.42 Bolt-ons
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GasTT



Posts : 2675
Join date : 2009-01-19
Age : 28
Location : Treasure Coast, FL

PostSubject: Re: brakes? Lines rusty, broken lines.....   Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:47 pm

I cut and spliced the new line in my wagon. I cut right where it came down the frame rail. Bubble flared it. No problems 10k miles later lots of hard stopping. Maybe it was double .... Either way, no problems.
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Bull



Posts : 222
Join date : 2012-09-22
Location : Western MA

PostSubject: Re: brakes? Lines rusty, broken lines.....   Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:35 pm

There are no special measures to take when bleeding an ABS system? I've only bled brakes on '60s and '70s Pontiacs before.

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1984twodoor



Posts : 4059
Join date : 2010-03-30
Age : 23
Location : Wilmington/Wakefield/Andover

PostSubject: Re: brakes? Lines rusty, broken lines.....   Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:55 pm

Bull wrote:
There are no special measures to take when bleeding an ABS system?  I've only bled brakes on '60s and '70s Pontiacs before.


Not that I've ever been instructed to do. Although, technically...you're supposed to crack the bleeder before compressing the piston during a pad slap. The old fluid with sediment from the caliper has been linked to faulty pressure hold valves in the unit. Does that really happen around here with the round and "don't-look-at-it-or-it-will-break" bleeder screws? Not really.
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MalibuSSwagon



Posts : 576
Join date : 2013-06-17
Age : 32
Location : Weare, NH

PostSubject: Re: brakes? Lines rusty, broken lines.....   Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:05 pm

Bull wrote:
There are no special measures to take when bleeding an ABS system?  I've only bled brakes on '60s and '70s Pontiacs before.


None at all. Think about it, when you press the brake pedal you are pushing the fluid thru the ABS module to get to the wheels.

I was worried about this too when I replaced the master on my gf's Honda. But it bled out just fine.
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cctrack78



Posts : 36
Join date : 2012-03-19
Location : saugus, MA

PostSubject: Re: brakes? Lines rusty, broken lines.....   Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:23 pm

the rear brakes are sucking hard. It doesn't help that I'm a drive way grease monkey, with limited room.
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PostSubject: Re: brakes? Lines rusty, broken lines.....   Today at 8:58 pm

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