BADASS of New England

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 Ever Actually Failed Inspection for Mods?

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Bull



Posts : 222
Join date : 2012-09-22
Location : Western MA

PostSubject: Ever Actually Failed Inspection for Mods?   Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:26 pm

I hear about this all the time in the state of MA: it's illegal to modify a stock exhaust system. It's also illegal to remove emissions equipment, like the AIR pump that so many B-body guys pull.

So how many of you have ever actually failed an inspection for a modification of an exhaust system or an emissions component delete?

I don't think my inspection guy even pops the hood or looks under the car, but I still hate the idea that I might do a mod requiring time and money and potentially get my wrist slapped for it.

I'm wondering if what the laws say and what shops actually do are two different things.
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bfurches



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PostSubject: Re: Ever Actually Failed Inspection for Mods?   Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:33 pm

Bull wrote:
I hear about this all the time in the state of MA: it's illegal to modify a stock exhaust system.  It's also illegal to remove emissions equipment, like the AIR pump that so many B-body guys pull.

So how many of you have ever actually failed an inspection for a modification of an exhaust system or an emissions component delete?  

I don't think my inspection guy even pops the hood or looks under the car, but I still hate the idea that I might do a mod requiring time and money and potentially get my wrist slapped for it.

I'm wondering if what the laws say and what shops actually do are two different things.

1997 and back don't require an emissions test (safety only). Being that all the b-bodys are 96 or older, you are not going to run into any issues (unless your exhaust is excessively loud).

A few years ago, this was not the case and the 96's were still subject to the emissions test (visual as well as obd2), however, we are now exempt.

As far as mods....I have failed for exhaust, but mine is also pretty damn loud and it was kinda expected. Other then that, the only reason they popped my hood was because the tech wanted to check out the swap lol.

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Bull



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PostSubject: Re: Ever Actually Failed Inspection for Mods?   Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:41 pm

Thanks for replying, Brian.

Don't the laws state that stock exhausts can't be modified and emissions can't be removed no matter what year the car is?

If so, then it's just a case of shops not looking into any pre-OBDII cars closely enough to catch anything? They don't care, in other words?
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bfurches



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PostSubject: Re: Ever Actually Failed Inspection for Mods?   Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:52 pm

Bull wrote:
Thanks for replying, Brandon.

Fixed lol

Yes, the law does state that the OEM exhaust can not be modified from stock, but that would make at least 50% of the vehicles on the road illegal (and if you wanted to get really technical with the wording of the law....an aftermarket "replacement" exhaust from autozone or advance would technically be illegal)....hence why it's not really enforced unless it makes objectionably harsh noise.

As far as the emissions equipment, you have to remember....an inspection technician is not familiar with the layout or components of every vehicle on the road. It is very easy to overlook, especially if the under hood is clean and presentable and the technician is not necessarily familiar with the chassis in front of him or her.

Basically....when you go for sticker, don't ask questions. There not going to look for something unless you give them a reason too.

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Bull



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PostSubject: Re: Ever Actually Failed Inspection for Mods?   Fri Jul 26, 2013 11:05 pm

That does make sense.

Sorry about the name fuck-up; I knew it started with a B and just mind-farted the rest.

bfurches wrote:
Bull wrote:
Thanks for replying, Brandon.

Fixed lol

Yes, the law does state that the OEM exhaust can not be modified from stock, but that would make at least 50% of the vehicles on the road illegal (and if you wanted to get really technical with the wording of the law....an aftermarket "replacement" exhaust from autozone or advance would technically be illegal)....hence why it's not really enforced unless it makes objectionably harsh noise.

As far as the emissions equipment, you have to remember....an inspection technician is not familiar with the layout or components of every vehicle on the road. It is very easy to overlook, especially if the under hood is clean and presentable and the technician is not necessarily familiar with the chassis in front of him or her.

Basically....when you go for sticker, don't ask questions. There not going to look for something unless you give them a reason too.

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MASShole9C1



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Join date : 2009-12-16

PostSubject: Re: Ever Actually Failed Inspection for Mods?   Fri Jul 26, 2013 11:13 pm

You pose a good question! I've never failed for anthything on a B body but safety and that was 10 years ago. It's funny, how state laws regarding exhaust are flawed to begin with and it takes away commerce and taxes revenue for aftermarket oars and shops. Just my outlook on the ridiculousness of the situate toon created by someone like nancy pelosi. I have a cat back exhaust, along with AIR delete and passed last year. No hood open nothing. Not required. As long as you have lights, horns, washer sprays the windshield, brakes work, and you don't have any obvious nonsense going on, you'll be all set.
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Cadet57



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PostSubject: Re: Ever Actually Failed Inspection for Mods?   Sat Jul 27, 2013 12:38 am

The only thing they ever failed me for was window tint. And the only reason I ended up passing is because I called them out on how they could pass it the year before and not the next.

Also, apparently the guy checking my car knew I hollowed out my cat. But, since it was still attached he had to pass me. Laughing 
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GasTT



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PostSubject: Re: Ever Actually Failed Inspection for Mods?   Sat Jul 27, 2013 8:52 pm

Inspection? What's that? jocolor 
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MancheSSterJake



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PostSubject: Re: Ever Actually Failed Inspection for Mods?   Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:34 pm

The deletion of the air pump is LEGAL. There is an emissions sticker available from GM that you put on the radiator support that explains that. That should not fail you.
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Bull



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PostSubject: Re: Ever Actually Failed Inspection for Mods?   Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:42 pm

MancheSSterJake wrote:
The deletion of the air pump is LEGAL.  There is an emissions sticker available from GM that you put on the radiator support that explains that.   That should not fail you.

I've been reading about this over on the big Impala forum. Apparently the GM service bulletin calls for disabling the AIR system, not specifically removing it. The official GM sticker for the engine bay uses the word "disable" and not "delete." Some guys have made stickers that say "delete" though.

I'll copy and paste a big reply I got over there earlier. If you actually pay attention to what the laws say in the books, at least according to what I am reading, you'll be damn glad no one enforces them.
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MASShole9C1



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PostSubject: Re: Ever Actually Failed Inspection for Mods?   Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:53 pm

Just a thought here, if you're afraid to do it, don't do it. End of story.

Sounds to me like you got your answer. I deleted it, put a "delete" sticker on. Nobody gives a damn. Most of these guys don't even know what they are looking anyway.
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Bull



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PostSubject: Re: Ever Actually Failed Inspection for Mods?   Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:02 pm

MASShole9C1 wrote:
Just a thought here, if you're afraid to do it, don't do it. End of story.

Sounds to me like you got your answer. I deleted it, put a "delete" sticker on. Nobody gives a damn. Most of these guys don't even know what they are looking anyway.

This isn't just about the AIR pump, my question is about whether people have failed for any of these emissions or exhaust related mods, so things like EGR delete, headers, performance mufflers etc. A few guys have responded, but it's a small sample.

I do have a healthy fear any large bureaucracy that has the power to take my money or take my time, yeah.
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Bull



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PostSubject: Re: Ever Actually Failed Inspection for Mods?   Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:04 pm

Here is what one of the OGs over on the big forum wrote about this issue; it's interesting reading at the very least.

this is the TSB for air pump disable
http://www.obdclearinghouse.com/documents/newdocuments/tsb/buick/01-06-04-011

it does not say in can/can't be 'removed", just says "disable"

BUT what the smog shops have to deal with not only by various state regulations but Federal with C.A.R.B.(california air resource board) being the most comprehensive in terms of do/don't.

notes from Federal (EPA):

WARNING: Federal law makes it illegal for ANYONE to tamper with, disconnect, remove or otherwise render inoperative ANY emissions-related control device. The Environmental Protection Agency and most states have actually been rather lax about enforcing this rule on motorists, but they haven't hesitated to nail professional service facilities that have been guilty of tampering. Even so, the fines can be hefty. A violation may make you liable for up to a $2,500 fine!

No Tampering

The federal anti-tampering law does not, however, apply to race cars that are not operated on the street, other full-time off-road vehicles, show cars that are not street driven, or vehicles not factory equipped with emission controls (most 1967 and earlier vehicles). So that exempts all antique cars, and most classic cars and muscle cars.

Revisions to the Clean Air Act in 1990 further broadened the definition of emissions tampering to include virtually ANY type of engine or exhaust system modification that alters what comes out the tailpipe. That means any nonstock aftermarket part that is installed on your engine must be EPA-approved and emissions legal (except on the exempt vehicles previously noted).

Before the law was revised in 1990, it was only illegal for professional mechanics to remove or disconnect emission control devices. There was nothing to prevent a motorist from tampering with their own vehicles. That loophole has since been plugged.

What Is Emissions-legal?

Any of the following may be considered emissions tampering and get you into trouble:
•Removing the EGR valve or plugging its vacuum lines
•Removing or disconnecting the PCV valve
•Removing the stock air cleaner and heat riser duct plumbing
•Removing the catalytic converter
•Removing or disconnecting the air pump
•Removing or modifying the stock distributor vacuum advance/retard
•Altering the stock ignition advance mechanism or timing curve
•Replacing the stock distributor with an aftermarket unit that is not emissions certified
•Modifying, removing or replacing the stock computer or PROM chip with a non-certified component
•Blocking the heat riser duct under the intake manifold
•Knocking out the filler restrictor on the fuel tank inlet pipe
•Replacing the stock non-vented gas cap with a vented cap
•Removing or disconnecting the fuel vapor recovery canister
•Changing the idle mixture or stock carburetor jetting
•Removing or modifying the carburetor choke
•Modifying or replacing the carburetor accelerator pump with non-certified components
•Installing an intake manifold or racing manifold that lacks provisions for the stock EGR valve and/or a heat riser duct
•Installing a carburetor that lacks the stock emission hookups
•Installing non-certified fuel injectors
•Installing a long duration "racing" cam that is not emissions-certified
•Installing exhaust headers that lack provisions for a heat riser valve, an air cleaner preheat stove or fittings for an oxygen sensor (if required)
•Installing valve covers with open breathers or no fittings for a PCV valve
•Installing any induction, fuel or ignition system component that is NOT emissions legal


soooo, depending on how a particular shop "intreprets" all of this is why some people get away with it and others don't.

Now that the STAR program is in place here in Calif., it is very much by the book as the fines to these shop owners is stiff and they face suspension of there smog certification ability so they don't want to F with modded cars

It sucks that you need a front liscense plate in Calif. (don't know about other states) and not having one is a absolute "invite" to get pulled over to see wtf other violations they can ding you for...it is all about the $ in fines they raise. Overly tinted windows, exhaust to loud, etc are easy picking for $ fines.

Like the one post where the guy was denied emission passing because the air pump was "removed", it is just buy the book now and the "hook me up for $300 using a donor car to pass" shops are scarce, especially now with STAR in Calif

if you live in a state where emission testing is lax or just 'tail pipe" than great.


Last edited by Bull on Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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MancheSSterJake



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PostSubject: Re: Ever Actually Failed Inspection for Mods?   Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:24 pm

The airpump delete is from GM approved by the EPA. It does not violate this law. It makes it as though the car never had the airpump to begin with.

My cars get "stickers" not inspections.

The link at the beginning is dead.
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MASShole9C1



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PostSubject: Re: Ever Actually Failed Inspection for Mods?   Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:29 pm

Ok ok. I see where the rhetoric is coming from now.

All these jack offs in California post and put fear into people who otherwise don't have to worry about smog testing. But they make you second guess. Laws are designed to have gray areas or "discretion" for where and when to uphold and by whom. MA criminal and civil law are the same. You may, you shall, must not, under normal circumstances etc.

But to answer your question again, I've had no problems. I haven't modified my car in any illegal fashion given that the GM TSB and state laws don't seem to clash given that the "disabling" if the pump is approved by the federal EPA. It's a special rare case that nobody really knows how to handle. That's why I got the $2 stiçker and keep the TSB in my glove box.

If you want to live your life in the shadow of those ridiculous laws that were posted, just go buy a Camry or something.

I mean, guys have been doing this stuff for decades even before they lifted the sniffer test on older cars.

This is just me, I think emissions laws are BS back door fundraisers that put the unneeded pressure on automotive hobbyists and enthusiasts alike.
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Bull



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Location : Western MA

PostSubject: Re: Ever Actually Failed Inspection for Mods?   Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:38 pm

I fixed the link to the disable procedure document.

I'm just a small fish when it comes to playing with B-bodies.  There are a lot of guys on the Impala forum who state that the GM bulletin specifies disabling the system, not removing it, and therefore removing it is not warranted.  There are guys on there who report failing inspection for not having it.  One of those guys was from PA, not CA.

Of course a lot of these emissions laws are bullshit, especially on older cars which represent a minuscule fraction of what contributes pollution to the environment.

I'm a person who likes to ask questions and get answers.  Could I just say "fuck, I'll do what I want and not think about it?"  Yes.  But I like to be prepared, and part of that is knowing what the rules are and how they are enforced.  It can't hurt to talk about these things on an enthusiast forum.

Just because guys in the terrible state of CA have horror stories doesn't mean I'm going to do what they do; I'm asking about this on here and not there because the members here are in my general area.
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MASShole9C1



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PostSubject: Re: Ever Actually Failed Inspection for Mods?   Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:44 pm

I get it. But they just check for safety here. I don't know what else to say.

I'd like to see more guys on here chime in. But I've never heard of the contrary absent to your question.

I know when I lived in California I had my '87 monte shipped out there. In order for an out of state car to get a DOD registration sticker on the windshield, it HAD to get smogged first. Since MA shadowed their emmisions laws, they took my MA inspection sheet and gave me a registration sticker. That's only for DOD tho. Everyone else is screeeeeeeewwwwwed. Unless its a classic/antique before 1960something.
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Bull



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PostSubject: Re: Ever Actually Failed Inspection for Mods?   Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:49 pm

MASShole9C1 wrote:
I get it. But they just check for safety here. I don't know what else to say.

I'd like to see more guys on here chime in. But I've never heard of the contrary absent to your question.

Yeah, with just a few guys in the thread there isn't much new that we can generate in terms of the issue. Maybe there just aren't enough MA guys on here to get more than a few replies.

I am getting rid of the AIR stuff for sure, but I do sometimes wonder if headers and custom exhaust would raise any eyebrows at a station.

The best teacher is experience, I guess.
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MASShole9C1



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PostSubject: Re: Ever Actually Failed Inspection for Mods?   Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:01 pm

True, true.

How would they know if you have headers? I'm fixing to get some here soon. I'll still use the cats. I have the Flowmaster cat back with H pipe, polished tips, and 50s. The inspection place never gave it a second thought. That combined with the ride height, wheels etc would lead most places in Cali to dig, but not here. Most techs are car guys too don't forget.
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Bull



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PostSubject: Re: Ever Actually Failed Inspection for Mods?   Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:05 pm

That's true, and my current inspection guy is an old school hot rodder.  As long as he is around I think I am pretty safe.  He did tell me that he does need to fail cars if the exhaust is "too loud."  That's the only way he or any tech would start poking around I suppose.  I don't know what his standard is; he passes my GTO which is "pretty loud."

Ironically a lot of bikes go by my house every day (I'm on a main road) that literally rattle my windows.  I've never ever heard a car drive by that was as loud as some of these bikes.


Last edited by Bull on Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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MASShole9C1



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PostSubject: Re: Ever Actually Failed Inspection for Mods?   Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:08 pm

Yea, the whole bike noise thing pisses me off.
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bowtiepimp



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PostSubject: Re: Ever Actually Failed Inspection for Mods?   Sun Jul 28, 2013 12:58 pm

Bull wrote:
I hear about this all the time in the state of MA: it's illegal to modify a stock exhaust system.  It's also illegal to remove emissions equipment, like the AIR pump that so many B-body guys pull.

So how many of you have ever actually failed an inspection for a modification of an exhaust system or an emissions component delete?  

I don't think my inspection guy even pops the hood or looks under the car, but I still hate the idea that I might do a mod requiring time and money and potentially get my wrist slapped for it.

I'm wondering if what the laws say and what shops actually do are two different things.



I do mass state inspection..... Any thing over 15 years is a safety check only. The can not fail you for any emission related issues is a loud exhaust leak or a current check engine light being on ( wish they can lie and say it wasn't on, the car does not get plugged in at all, so its up to the inspector).

The system is a joke, one push of a button and I can fail you for whatever. the biggest thing with the older cars is tinted front windows and rust/rot. A lot of guys get nervous if your not a regular customer. the state will pay people to run cars to see if they fail or not, and shut shops down pending results.


Personally I'll put a sticker on anything pretty much. Chop it, mod it, show up drunk with dead hookers in the trunk I'll send ya home with a good sticker.

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bowtiepimp



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PostSubject: Re: Ever Actually Failed Inspection for Mods?   Sun Jul 28, 2013 1:11 pm

Also......


MA state inspection and California are the same !!!!

The inspection program is a third party called Parson's. They operate in several state's. The emission part is the same in all states. All they check for is the readiness monitors. There is no way to trick this. ( well sorta but Im not telling ). If the light is off and they are ready then the vehicle can not fail for emissions. anything over 15 yrs they dont not have to inspect emissions parts. Any visible smoke is considered a safety issue.

The safety check again is up to each inspectors discretion.

Like Brian said, you worried bout nothing. If you show up asking question or acting like a jerk then you will get messed with...... if all else fails.....

.... move to Florida with Tim...... they have no inspections down there cheers 
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MASShole9C1



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PostSubject: Re: Ever Actually Failed Inspection for Mods?   Sun Jul 28, 2013 1:36 pm

Alabama has no inspection either and everything's cheaper Wink
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Bull



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PostSubject: Re: Ever Actually Failed Inspection for Mods?   Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:33 pm

Thanks, Bowtie; you are obviously in a very good position to answer my questions.
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Ironfistdog



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PostSubject: Re: Ever Actually Failed Inspection for Mods?   Sun Jul 28, 2013 7:34 pm

The caddy had 2.5" exhaust into flowmaster mufflers and then NOTHING! no tail pipes
Couldn't get a sticker ANYWHERE. Brought it to a certain pimp and I was good for 12 months. Jus sayin'

In all the years I've owned the B bodies not once did anyone ever open the hood. And there are real squares around here.
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Ironfistdog



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PostSubject: Re: Ever Actually Failed Inspection for Mods?   Sun Jul 28, 2013 8:01 pm

If your worried about loud exhaust and need to take it to a local place here's your answer (this applies to everyone)

Get a STOCK muffler and place the after market muffler of your choice next to it. Weld on a length of pipe to which ever one needs it so they are EQUAL lengths. Go pick up 8 header collectors (sold in pairs) with OD the same as your muffler/pipe size.
Weld the collectors to each end of the mufflers, the end of the intermediate pipe and over the axle pipe.
Now when inspection time comes undo the bolts and replace the noise with quiet stock ones for the test, the stock mufflers should last you the life of the car. Replace the aftermarkets as they wear out. By installing the collectors you got yourself a quick disconnect without the hassle of wrestling pipes.
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Matt Trakker



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PostSubject: Re: Ever Actually Failed Inspection for Mods?   Sun Jul 28, 2013 8:02 pm

Ironfistdog wrote:


In all the years I've owned the B bodies not once did anyone ever open the hood. And there are real squares around here.



"A square Benny! Kid's a square!"Smile 

I've never had a hood opened or anything either.  I remember when I first got my license, my truck failed emissions because I took it right to the place from home and got the test done. You had to take it for a blast on the highway and give the car the old "Italian Tune-Up" regardless, because it wouldn't be warmed up.  I had another vehicle fail because they actually changed emissions standards since the truck was built or something weird like that, that was when they still had the dyno test though.  So I put in a bunch of Drygas when the fuel tank was almost empty and passed, then filled it up with fuel.  The next year it was emissions exempt...Laughing 

I got the SS inspected with an intermittent CEL on but the car doesn't have to pass emissions so I guess they didn't care...that place seemed kinda lax anyways though.  I took a chance having never been there but the car had no sticker and I was afraid to drive it any degree of distance after I picked it up from a shop after I got some stuff fixed.


I remember my dad's '85 Bronco had an "EMISSIONS" light that was all the way to the left in the indicator lights going across the top of the cluster.  It came on when the truck wasn't even old, and wouldn't go off no matter what (it was a 351 H.O. with some Holley carb that was full of vacuum hoses and crap)..so he pulled the bulb out and had it dangling in the AC vent for god knows what reason. It was like a map light on the dashboard.  Passed emissions after that...LOL


bowtiepimp wrote:
Personally I'll put a sticker on anything pretty much. Chop it, mod it, show up drunk with dead hookers in the trunk I'll send ya home with a good sticker.

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