BADASS of New England

An automobile club for the enthusiast who enjoys the last of the big GM cars. The rear wheel drive B and D bodys. Chevrolet Impala SS, Caprice, 9C1, Buick Roadmaster, Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser, Cadillac Fleetwood
 
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 Gotta be an easier way

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1984twodoor



Posts : 4059
Join date : 2010-03-30
Age : 23
Location : Wilmington/Wakefield/Andover

PostSubject: Gotta be an easier way   Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:12 pm

So, I've been held up for a while trying to get the front springs into the frame, and I'm thinking I may give up for now. I was going to get them in, bolt in the shocks, then get the whole front end buttoned up before moving on to the rear. But, I cant get these things in!

I have a spring compressor, the kind with hooks on both ends that runs through the center of the spring, and it hasn't been working too well. When I do get it to stay hooked and tighten it doesn't stay centered and wont tighten the spring down enough. I've also tried placing the spring in, running the threaded rod through the spring with the hook on it and pulling the spring towards the frame, that was a failure after many experiments.

The FSM method is a bust as there is NO weight to the frame without the body or engine and it just falls of the jackstands and I only plan on having that happen once, meaning not again...

So if anyone has any ideas feel free to toss them below, but if I don't figure something out before this weekend I'm just going to get the rear end painted and dig into that so I can replace the bent shaft and install it into the frame.
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IMPALADAKID
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PostSubject: Re: Gotta be an easier way   Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:35 pm

The biggest problem you face is there is no weight on the frame. I thought about this when you posted pics of the suspension with no springs. I would remove the two bolts that hold the a-arm to the frame. Drop that down, and install that way, while leaving the ball joint connected to the king pin. You are also going to need a fair amount of weight on the frame to keep it from going up. Those springs hold 50-65% or the weight of the vehicle. You are not going to push them up on a bare frame without pushing the frame up.

Try this front spring install

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Ironfistdog



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Age : 35
Location : Warren, MA

PostSubject: Re: Gotta be an easier way   Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:47 pm

Loosen the lower control arm nuts, place floor jack under lower arm, place top of coil inside frame, use pry bar to lift bottom and get as much of the bottom coil into the control arm as you can, compress coil and pry the rest in, you'll probably have the coil bowing out a little, jack the lower arm up and put the spindle through the ball joints and add the castle nuts uncompress coil.

Alternately if the frame jacks up and you can't get the lower arm up I would get a length of 1/2" threaded rod, push it up through the coil and top shock mount hole, add two heavy duty washers, add two nuts and dead lock them, on the bottom use a pipe to floor mount (home depot plumbing dept) big enough to cover the bottom hole, add two heavy duty washers after that and them a grade 8 nut
Hold the top nut and Crank the bottom nut compressing the coil and LCA against the frame.
I've done a little coil work lol.
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1984twodoor



Posts : 4059
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Age : 23
Location : Wilmington/Wakefield/Andover

PostSubject: Re: Gotta be an easier way   Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:22 pm

IMPALADAKID wrote:
The biggest problem you face is there is no weight on the frame. I thought about this when you posted pics of the suspension with no springs. I would remove the two bolts that hold the a-arm to the frame. Drop that down, and install that way, while leaving the ball joint connected to the king pin. You are also going to need a fair amount of weight on the frame to keep it from going up. Those springs hold 50-65% or the weight of the vehicle. You are not going to push them up on a bare frame without pushing the frame up.

Try this front spring install

I came across that thread the other night doing some research before I made this thread. what part of that thread were you suggesting I look at? I may just bring a few friends to sit on the frame or hold it down, or I'll devise a different system to bolt it to the floor or have some boards press it against the rafters.

Ironfistdog wrote:
Loosen the lower control arm nuts, place floor jack under lower arm, place top of coil inside frame, use pry bar to lift bottom and get as much of the bottom coil into the control arm as you can, compress coil and pry the rest in, you'll probably have the coil bowing out a little, jack the lower arm up and put the spindle through the ball joints and add the castle nuts uncompress coil.

Alternately if the frame jacks up and you can't get the lower arm up I would get a length of 1/2" threaded rod, push it up through the coil and top shock mount hole, add two heavy duty washers, add two nuts and dead lock them, on the bottom use a pipe to floor mount (home depot plumbing dept) big enough to cover the bottom hole, add two heavy duty washers after that and them a grade 8 nut
Hold the top nut and Crank the bottom nut compressing the coil and LCA against the frame.
I've done a little coil work lol.

Indy I may need some pictures to get what you're saying in the second paragraph lol. Not sure if I follow. The top would be awesome if I had weight! I may need to pick up some fat chicks...

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toomanytoyz
Club President


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Location : East Hampstead, NH USA

PostSubject: Re: Gotta be an easier way   Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:28 pm

I was gonna say to try pretty much what indy was describing. Essentially, you're running a long 1/2" threaded rod down through the center of the spring, using large plates/washers on top and bottom, and essentially using the frame and control arm as one big spring compressor as you tighten the nuts on the threaded rod.

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Ironfistdog



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Location : Warren, MA

PostSubject: Re: Gotta be an easier way   Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:35 pm

That's exactly right, here's a pic of basically what I'm saying. I made this tool to press bushings but it's the same concept.
You will also need a bigger pipe to floor adapter tha what I have on here.

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IMPALADAKID
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PostSubject: Re: Gotta be an easier way   Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:43 pm

1984twodoor wrote:

Try this front spring install

1984twodoor wrote:
I came across that thread the other night doing some research before I made this thread. what part of that thread were you suggesting I look at?
Page two. Basically the same thing Indigo is suggesting.

_________________
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2007 Pontiac G6 VL 2.4 I4 (Wife's Daily)


Last edited by IMPALADAKID on Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:25 am; edited 1 time in total
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phantom 309



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Location : in the gr8whtnorth

PostSubject: Re: Gotta be an easier way   Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:54 pm

put the top of the spring in, put the jack under the a -arm right at the lower ball joint,.,. jack it till car starts to almost lift,.
put a piece of chain from the jack up to the frame, so the car cant lift,.then just jack the a-arm into place,.
removing the two a- arm bolts is treacherous,. don't do it,..
JM2C
BTDT
YRMV
NWEOI
DAOR
PDCC

Nick
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1984twodoor



Posts : 4059
Join date : 2010-03-30
Age : 23
Location : Wilmington/Wakefield/Andover

PostSubject: Re: Gotta be an easier way   Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:28 pm

Ironfistdog wrote:
That's exactly right, here's a pic of basically what I'm saying. I made this tool to press bushings but it's the same concept.
You will also need a bigger pipe to floor adapter tha what I have on here.



The pic does help out. I'll assemble something like that tomorrow night after work. Hopefully they'll have everything I need at Lowes as they're open 9-10 when I'll have time to get there. Hopefully I can try it out Thursday night or something. I hope these damn springs can get the eff IN! They're whats stopping me from having front tires on the ground.
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Ironfistdog



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PostSubject: Re: Gotta be an easier way   Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:37 pm

Everything pictured came from lowe's I haven't found a home depot close by yet.
Cost me under $30 to build. I feel ya bro, when I put the coils back into the FWB, I had none of this and no compressor, I pryed them in almost all the way and used a 5 lb hammer the rest of the way. SERIOUS WORKOUT!
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1984twodoor



Posts : 4059
Join date : 2010-03-30
Age : 23
Location : Wilmington/Wakefield/Andover

PostSubject: Re: Gotta be an easier way   Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:17 pm

Ironfistdog wrote:
Everything pictured came from lowe's I haven't found a home depot close by yet.
Cost me under $30 to build. I feel ya bro, when I put the coils back into the FWB, I had none of this and no compressor, I pryed them in almost all the way and used a 5 lb hammer the rest of the way. SERIOUS WORKOUT!

I hope i can get a pipe to floor fitting small enough to fit in the semi circle and one big enough for the bottom of the arm. I also better have a ratcheting wrench that size!
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boojum



Posts : 2152
Join date : 2009-01-21
Age : 29
Location : NH

PostSubject: Re: Gotta be an easier way   Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:27 pm

http://transamcountry.com/community/index.php?topic=4042.0

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MASShole9C1



Posts : 4211
Join date : 2009-12-16

PostSubject: Re: Gotta be an easier way   Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:53 pm

Problem+lowering springs=solved
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1984twodoor



Posts : 4059
Join date : 2010-03-30
Age : 23
Location : Wilmington/Wakefield/Andover

PostSubject: Re: Gotta be an easier way   Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:04 pm

boojum wrote:
http://transamcountry.com/community/index.php?topic=4042.0


I tried that today, but the rod for my compressor is too large of a diamerter (3/4") and wouldn't fit into the shock mount. I saw it done on a youtube video and thought "man that made it look easy!" I really hoped that it would work but it didn't... Oh well.

I may try a mixture of this and indy's idea to get it right.

MASShole9C1 wrote:
Problem+lowering springs=solved

Eh, not really my style. But if I can't get these ones in then the stock springs will be cut LOW and put in so that I can have it rolling properly until I get some weight for it.
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boojum



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PostSubject: Re: Gotta be an easier way   Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:40 pm

I can't find a photo but on powerblock they mentioned using a 5/8 threaded rod with the crontrol arms unbolted. The argument was that it's easier to pull the arm straight up into position.

The Moog springs go in eaiser than the stock ones. Smile
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Ironfistdog



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PostSubject: Re: Gotta be an easier way   Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:52 pm

MASShole9C1 wrote:
Problem+lowering springs=solved

Lol I was gonna say "bag it" but I didn't wanna push his buttons Very Happy
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No Moa



Posts : 3871
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Age : 44
Location : Midcoast Maine

PostSubject: Re: Gotta be an easier way   Wed Mar 27, 2013 7:38 am

boojum wrote:
http://transamcountry.com/community/index.php?topic=4042.0


What are you doing hanging out over there? Camaro guy! lol
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MASShole9C1



Posts : 4211
Join date : 2009-12-16

PostSubject: Re: Gotta be an easier way   Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:33 pm

boojum wrote:
The Moog springs go in eaiser than the stock ones. Smile
X2
Cheap as well
They ride great!!!
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1984twodoor



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Location : Wilmington/Wakefield/Andover

PostSubject: Re: Gotta be an easier way   Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:03 pm

Rolling Eyes I am using lowering springs. These are Impala SS springs not boxy springs = lowering springs. Now we can stop with that BS Laughing


I didn't make it to Lowes tonight, I'll try in the morning to figure something out. I'm not going to spend too much time with this. Worst case ontario I wait. Not a big deal.
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MASShole9C1



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PostSubject: Re: Gotta be an easier way   Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:21 pm

Stop the bs??? It's only begun my young friend.

I'm guessing there's no way to strap up a block and trans to use as weight?
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1984twodoor



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PostSubject: Re: Gotta be an easier way   Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:44 pm

MASShole9C1 wrote:
Stop the bs??? It's only begun my young friend.

I'm guessing there's no way to strap up a block and trans to use as weight?

Ehh, I could but that makes it a little more involved. I have a feeling bolting in a rear end will as a ballast and some sand bags (being taken out of the cougar's trunk) on the front would be easier. I may try the sand bags and indy's pipe fitting compressor tomorrow night. If they aren't in by this weekend I'm just going to wait until the frame is home, engine is in and blah blah
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MASShole9C1



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Join date : 2009-12-16

PostSubject: Re: Gotta be an easier way   Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:47 pm

Well, nonetheless your predicament will probably teach me something. I'm anxious still to see this thing rolling under its own power again.
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1984twodoor



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PostSubject: Re: Gotta be an easier way   Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:57 pm

MASShole9C1 wrote:
Well, nonetheless your predicament will probably teach me something. I'm anxious still to see this thing rolling under its own power again.


You aren't the only one!


*facepalm* Surprised
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MASShole9C1



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PostSubject: Re: Gotta be an easier way   Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:46 am

Ha! Aww dang. I thought I was trending....
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phantom 309



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PostSubject: Re: Gotta be an easier way   Sat Mar 30, 2013 1:48 am

so what the f.. did i post how to do it for,...?
you think i just made it all up?
chain from floor jack to frame,.
simple,. car can't lift,.safest way,.
you compress a spring and band it, you have just created a bomb,.then you have to cut the bands and get them out after its in,.thats a violent process in itself
I,ve built a few front ends over the last 35 yrs or so,.

good luck,.




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sdstick



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PostSubject: Re: Gotta be an easier way   Sat Mar 30, 2013 7:28 am

phantom 309 wrote:
so what the f.. did i post how to do it for,...?
you think i just made it all up?

good luck,.

You know...it's funny
I said the same thing to myself when I saw the post & it didnt get a response.

The mechanical engineer in me was trying to suggest a method like that
(all I could come up with was chaining it to the floor)

I think I'd at least put my jack in position & see if I could pull that off.

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No Moa



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PostSubject: Re: Gotta be an easier way   Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:04 am

duh, if you set a 2 ton block on the top of the frame, it will compress enough to work. sheesh! Arrow
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1984twodoor



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PostSubject: Re: Gotta be an easier way   Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:50 am

sdstick wrote:
phantom 309 wrote:
so what the f.. did i post how to do it for,...?
you think i just made it all up?

good luck,.

You know...it's funny
I said the same thing to myself when I saw the post & it didnt get a response.

The mechanical engineer in me was trying to suggest a method like that
(all I could come up with was chaining it to the floor)

I think I'd at least put my jack in position & see if I could pull that off.

If it was my floor I would chain the frame to it, but it's not so that's out. I tried Indy's contraption the other night, not very hard but I gave it a whirl, and I didn't get much progress. Then for laughs I tried to jack the arm up kicking and prying the spring into place. Not happening either.

Nick, I appreciate the post but don't be upset if it didn't get a response, I don't have any length of chain and wanted to try the home brewed compressor first. Where I am losing the storage at the end of April I would rather get it rolling so I can bring it home. From there I can mess around some more and have more of my tools, like my own floor jack, to try and get the spring in. Hell I could even add weight to it. Your method hasn't been thrown out the window so don't feel like you've wasted time.
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1984twodoor



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PostSubject: Re: Gotta be an easier way   Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:51 am

No Moa wrote:
duh, if you set a 2 ton block on the top of the frame, it will compress enough to work. sheesh! Arrow

I saw one thread somewhere a dud put his excatavor bucket through the garage door and pressed down on the frame Laughing If I had an excavator I'd do that.
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MASShole9C1



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PostSubject: Re: Gotta be an easier way   Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:41 am

Ok ok...
Lets just wait until you have it all back together with the original weight on the suspension lol
I bet you want it to roll waaaay before that tho Wink
We could get a few guys from the club (heavy guys, not gonna name names...) and you can go about your merry way!
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1984twodoor



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PostSubject: Re: Gotta be an easier way   Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:27 pm

MASShole9C1 wrote:
Ok ok...
Lets just wait until you have it all back together with the original weight on the suspension lol
I bet you want it to roll waaaay before that tho Wink
We could get a few guys from the club (heavy guys, not gonna name names...) and you can go about your merry way!

kind of what I would like to do, That way I can do it the normal way with no compressor but rely less on the chain to hold it down.
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