BADASS of New England

An automobile club for the enthusiast who enjoys the last of the big GM cars. The rear wheel drive B and D bodys. Chevrolet Impala SS, Caprice, 9C1, Buick Roadmaster, Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser, Cadillac Fleetwood
 
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 Dumb question -

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bangshiftbrian



Posts : 93
Join date : 2012-03-28

PostSubject: Dumb question -   Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:53 pm

Where is the ECU located in my '87? Is it behind the kick panel on the passenger side? I have not looked for it but I am going to get rid of all the excess wiring under the hood now that the damned CCC and electo-Quadrajet are history, along with the AC. I am figuring the ECU can hit the deck wit the rest of the junk.
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bfurches



Posts : 1061
Join date : 2010-04-20
Age : 29
Location : Springfield, MA

PostSubject: Re: Dumb question -   Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:00 am

Yes, should be passenger side kick. Harness comes through the firewall at the bottom of the HVAC panel by the bottom of the inner fender liner.
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Machine-De-Zine



Posts : 512
Join date : 2010-11-16
Age : 59
Location : Wrentham

PostSubject: Re: Dumb question -   Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:02 am

Yes, that's where mine was too,

You can take the ECU/ECM [and the massive rat's-nest of associated wires] completely out of the car, I did in my 88 LS.

Pretty sure you already know to wire your MSD so that battery power does not back-feed in such a way that when turning off your ignition switch, it fails to shut down the engine.

There is a note included with the installation instructions shipped with the MSD that tells you how to avoid that.

Also, if you haven't chosen an alternator yet, I recommend staying away from the so-called "one-wire" units.

Its better to have a system that reads voltage (say 13.8V) closer to the point where it is actually needed,
and then let the unit increase voltage out-put until the correct value is accurately delivered where it is needed.

Those one wire jobs behave as pre-set output units,
they must "predict" that the line losses will be consistant so that you will hopefully receive the correct voltage where it is required.

The alternators (and starters) from Power Master have been good to me, and their alternators also come with a "dyno-sheet.

The rough black painted units will run much cooler due to the greatly reduced "tea-kettle effect" inherent in those pretty polished and/or chromed alternators.
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1984twodoor



Posts : 4059
Join date : 2010-03-30
Age : 23
Location : Wilmington/Wakefield/Andover

PostSubject: Re: Dumb question -   Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:46 pm

So all of that is unnecessary in my 87 I take it? SCORE! Time to clean that thing up!


Well...once I get it in one piece I can clean it up Rolling Eyes
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Matt Trakker



Posts : 5068
Join date : 2009-07-30
Age : 35
Location : Reading, MA

PostSubject: Re: Dumb question -   Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:12 pm

Machine-De-Zine wrote:
Yes, that's where mine was too,

You can take the ECU/ECM [and the massive rat's-nest of associated wires] completely out of the car, I did in my 88 LS.

Pretty sure you already know to wire your MSD so that battery power does not back-feed in such a way that when turning off your ignition switch, it fails to shut down the engine.

There is a note included with the installation instructions shipped with the MSD that tells you how to avoid that.

Also, if you haven't chosen an alternator yet, I recommend staying away from the so-called "one-wire" units.

Its better to have a system that reads voltage (say 13.8V) closer to the point where it is actually needed,
and then let the unit increase voltage out-put until the correct value is accurately delivered where it is needed.

Those one wire jobs behave as pre-set output units,
they must "predict" that the line losses will be consistant so that you will hopefully receive the correct voltage where it is required.

The alternators (and starters) from Power Master have been good to me, and their alternators also come with a "dyno-sheet.

The rough black painted units will run much cooler due to the greatly reduced "tea-kettle effect" inherent in those pretty polished and/or chromed alternators.

I never thought of that with the chromed alternators. Good to know!

Useless info I guess at this juncture, but the ECM/ECU was behind the kick panel in my brother's 1989 as well. I think it was actually IN the kick panel and you could slide it out like a holster?
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Machine-De-Zine



Posts : 512
Join date : 2010-11-16
Age : 59
Location : Wrentham

PostSubject: Re: Dumb question -   Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:53 pm

1984twodoor wrote:
So all of that is unnecessary in my 87 I take it? SCORE! Time to clean that thing up!


Well...once I get it in one piece I can clean it up Rolling Eyes

Thats not 100% true either, GM would not have spent money and resources in engineering and putting all that "stuff" in there with out having their reasons.

Most of it is having to do with emissions, fuel usage & driveability requirements of that year.

The methods they had used to produce a car that burns cleanly, sips fuel efficiently but also operates smoothly, reliably and without stalling at every stop light with the A/C turned on presented a challenge to the then-current technologies while working within a fairly strict set of limiting cost constraints.

Be aware of what those things are before wantonly ripping it all out.

The Bang-Shift car is using a stand alone carb, ignition box & distributor, and he may not care if it fails state emissions requirements.

My 88 LS Brougham car has a 425+ hp pump-gas, old iron BowTie headed, gen-1 355 built in such a way that could not possibly even run operating within those OEM type emissions system's ranges.

The only two smart-ish boxes in my car are the stand alone MSD Digital-6 and the dual electric cooling fan's controller/computer.

Just make sure you're well aware of what you will wind up with, and without, because reversing the emissions systems gutting steps will not be fun.

So yes, pull it out.
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Matt Trakker



Posts : 5068
Join date : 2009-07-30
Age : 35
Location : Reading, MA

PostSubject: Re: Dumb question -   Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:54 pm

Machine-De-Zine wrote:


So yes, pull it out.




Very Happy
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1984twodoor



Posts : 4059
Join date : 2010-03-30
Age : 23
Location : Wilmington/Wakefield/Andover

PostSubject: Re: Dumb question -   Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:47 pm

Machine-De-Zine wrote:
1984twodoor wrote:
So all of that is unnecessary in my 87 I take it? SCORE! Time to clean that thing up!


Well...once I get it in one piece I can clean it up Rolling Eyes

Thats not 100% true either, GM would not have spent money and resources in engineering and putting all that "stuff" in there with out having their reasons.

Most of it is having to do with emissions, fuel usage & driveability requirements of that year.

The methods they had used to produce a car that burns cleanly, sips fuel efficiently but also operates smoothly, reliably and without stalling at every stop light with the A/C turned on presented a challenge to the then-current technologies while working within a fairly strict set of limiting cost constraints.

Be aware of what those things are before wantonly ripping it all out.

The Bang-Shift car is using a stand alone carb, ignition box & distributor, and he may not care if it fails state emissions requirements.

My 88 LS Brougham car has a 425+ hp pump-gas, old iron BowTie headed, gen-1 355 built in such a way that could not possibly even run operating within those OEM type emissions system's ranges.

The only two smart-ish boxes in my car are the stand alone MSD Digital-6 and the dual electric cooling fan's controller/computer.

Just make sure you're well aware of what you will wind up with, and without, because reversing the emissions systems gutting steps will not be fun.

So yes, pull it out.

Well, I had planned on making the car "old" if you catch my drift. The original Q-jet is gone, EGR is gone, A.I.R. Pump got taken off before I even did the carb swap. I would like to do away with the various sensors such as the coolant temp and that vacuum switch I never researched the purpose of in the T-stat housing. I would like to do the MSD ignition box, or some other equivalent, but I have seen MSD so much that it appears it's the best on the market today. I had the intention of using a flex fan Brandon gave me YEARS ago so I'd have even less smart(ish) boxes in my car than you! Laughing

Brian, the bangshift guy, and I live in MA and we don't have to worry about emissions or any of that with our model years! Cool

Glen, once the final re-assembly gets closer, you'll get really tired of me bugging you about the best option to do _____ or ______. Stuff like which of these wires can be cut and which have to stay. Keep in mind, I'm kind of copying your 88....just a lot less cool under the hood study

[img][/img]

Matt Trakker wrote:
Machine-De-Zine wrote:


So yes, pull it out.




Very Happy

That's what she said... Laughing

Oh and sorry for the thread jack
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bangshiftbrian



Posts : 93
Join date : 2012-03-28

PostSubject: Re: Dumb question -   Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:09 am

I have unplugged from the Matrix...engine bay still ugly as sin! HA!






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1984twodoor



Posts : 4059
Join date : 2010-03-30
Age : 23
Location : Wilmington/Wakefield/Andover

PostSubject: Re: Dumb question -   Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:33 am

bangshiftbrian wrote:
I have unplugged from the Matrix...engine bay still ugly as sin! HA!






Dude, you need a few cans of paint Laughing
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bfurches



Posts : 1061
Join date : 2010-04-20
Age : 29
Location : Springfield, MA

PostSubject: Re: Dumb question -   Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:58 am

1984twodoor wrote:


Dude, you need a few cans of paint Laughing

No way! Some chrome wire loom to go with the blue zip ties, and Mr. T. Justice will be looking mighty fine! Haha
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sdstick



Posts : 4277
Join date : 2009-03-20
Location : Revere, MA

PostSubject: Re: Dumb question -   Thu Nov 15, 2012 5:19 pm

I know ALL TO WELL....its not easy leaving stuff alone...


Good job doing that... Arrow

_________________
Steve


96BBB 28K 3.42 Bolt-ons
95BBB 100K 3.73 383 New DD...already broke fixt the 4L60E twice
95 Black WB4 Hole...ee...grail
96 Black WB4 No holes in this
95BBB 189K 3.08 Old DD Stolen...by Matt. Cool
Whine..eee...Silver LS6
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bangshiftbrian



Posts : 93
Join date : 2012-03-28

PostSubject: Re: Dumb question -   Thu Nov 15, 2012 5:21 pm

The horrifying engine bay situation will be handled when I either give up trying to kill this engine or it explodes on its own.

The blue zip ties are especially sad, but that's what I had laying around. Smile
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sdstick



Posts : 4277
Join date : 2009-03-20
Location : Revere, MA

PostSubject: Re: Dumb question -   Thu Nov 15, 2012 5:33 pm


bangshiftbrian wrote:
The horrifying engine bay situation will be handled when I either give up trying to kill this engine or it explodes on its own.

The blue zip ties are especially sad, but that's what I had laying around. Smile

Just to clarify

...this whole progression wouldnt be anyway near as interesting if you dumped a pretty built motor in there.


bangshiftbrian wrote:
I have unplugged from the Matrix...

I'm still chuckling over that ^^^ Razz

_________________
Steve


96BBB 28K 3.42 Bolt-ons
95BBB 100K 3.73 383 New DD...already broke fixt the 4L60E twice
95 Black WB4 Hole...ee...grail
96 Black WB4 No holes in this
95BBB 189K 3.08 Old DD Stolen...by Matt. Cool
Whine..eee...Silver LS6
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toomanytoyz
Club President


Posts : 6859
Join date : 2009-01-20
Age : 40
Location : East Hampstead, NH USA

PostSubject: Re: Dumb question -   Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:46 pm

What? Rust is a color... Wink

Nice work. Dirty, ugly, and real. Smile

_________________
Bill "The Verb" Crovo - Resident Car Slut & Unicorn Hunter

A Toasted Marshmallow, A Long German, A Lame Suburban and expensive dreams...
Missing all my previous B's, D's and V... Sad
American Ricer
www.badassofne.net
"Ooooh! Look! Something shiny!"
NO MORE UNICORNS!!!!!

LOWER IT!!! Wink
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bangshiftbrian



Posts : 93
Join date : 2012-03-28

PostSubject: Re: Dumb question -   Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:31 pm

So this kick panel thing....I was looking for it all day. Is it under the lifter retainer/spider in the valley of the engine block? How much more stuff do I have to pull to find it?





(Kidding....decided today to pull the heads off to install new valve springs, lap valves, etc before cam swap. At least it will be easier to lay the headers in the engine bay with no heads on the damned thing!)

Brian


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bfurches



Posts : 1061
Join date : 2010-04-20
Age : 29
Location : Springfield, MA

PostSubject: Re: Dumb question -   Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:59 pm

Brian which headers did you go with? The Hedmans were super easy to get in and out once I ditched the control arm frame brace thingies when I had the SBC.

I actually had to pull the drivers side at lunch one day to change the gasket, and still had enough time to eat my sandwich lol
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bangshiftbrian



Posts : 93
Join date : 2012-03-28

PostSubject: Re: Dumb question -   Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:03 pm

They are the budget basement Flowtechs. No coating or anything. Just messing around today, I dropped the right side one right in like you talked about. Left side doesn't look like it will be too much of a hassle coming from the bottom up.

I got the... "You drove this car home like three days ago and now the engine is all apart?" From my wife today. Luckily we're heading out for a nice dinner on Sunday so she's in good spirits. HA!
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toomanytoyz
Club President


Posts : 6859
Join date : 2009-01-20
Age : 40
Location : East Hampstead, NH USA

PostSubject: Re: Dumb question -   Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:59 am

The Flowtech Afterburners fit these cars like they were designed for them, fwiw. ;-)

_________________
Bill "The Verb" Crovo - Resident Car Slut & Unicorn Hunter

A Toasted Marshmallow, A Long German, A Lame Suburban and expensive dreams...
Missing all my previous B's, D's and V... Sad
American Ricer
www.badassofne.net
"Ooooh! Look! Something shiny!"
NO MORE UNICORNS!!!!!

LOWER IT!!! Wink
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http://impalass.uniquekind.net/
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