BADASS of New England

An automobile club for the enthusiast who enjoys the last of the big GM cars. The rear wheel drive B and D bodys. Chevrolet Impala SS, Caprice, 9C1, Buick Roadmaster, Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser, Cadillac Fleetwood
 
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 96 Odometer not showing...Could use some ideas...

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Pooge



Posts : 1698
Join date : 2009-03-24

PostSubject: 96 Odometer not showing...Could use some ideas...   Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:59 pm

Quick overview:
-96 Impala SS
-LS Swap with custom harness
-Resister fix professionally done
-Cluster has been rebuilt with new board and re-builder has verified mileage on the bench
-No odometer in car, not even the slightest back lighting or anything.
-All other functions work flawlessly including speedometer.
-I have tested another 96 cluster (Thanks to Steve) and it is confirmed that his known working odometer also does not light up in my car.

More Thorough Overview:
So, since completing the LS build I have not had any odometer. I sent the cluster out to a tech to have the resisters replaced with the fix and was informed I needed a new board also...sucks, but considering how low the mileage on the car was I figured it was important to keep the same cluster for accurate mileage. After everything was fixed and bench tested I got the cluster back and the odometer still does not light up. After checking with the re-builder, and even sending it back, he confirmed that odometer lights up on the bench.

It pretty much boils down to something in my car causing the issue, however my harness builder and PCM tuner says it can't be anything with the harness or PCM because it only sends a signal to the speedo, and the odometer then pulls mileage from the speedo...

What I have Tried:
-Resister fix
-Replaced Board
-Checked DRL fuse
-Replaced functioning TS module with another
-replaced functioning headlight switch with another
-(I will add more as I try things)


Basically I need ideas of other things that could be causing it. I have tried to understand the wiring and can't figure out anything that would be directly related to the odometer. This is keeping me from driving my otherwise ready-to-drive car other than a few test runs around town, so you can imagine my frustration here.

Does anyone know how the odometer tallies in a stock Impala? Is it from the PCM or is it off the speedo, which is run off the VSS?

If anyone has a better understanding of how the odometer is powered or what might be related to it I would really appreciate the help. NO IDEA IS DUMB, I will try anything that will not hurt other functions.

Thanks!

_________________
1996 Impala SS - 45K original miles - 5.3 LS swap - Brand new Bilsteins...WHAT A DIFFERENCE!
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sdstick



Posts : 4278
Join date : 2009-03-20
Location : Revere, MA

PostSubject: Re: 96 Odometer not showing...Could use some ideas...   Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:08 pm

So this harness....it connects what to what?

Obviously feeds motor / sensor to interior...cluster only?

A/C DRL (Fuse 20) = 10A = good? This is the IGN power to odometer

Dimmer switch work on all the other cluster lights?= INT DIM (Fuse 42) = 10A This is the STEP DIM to the odometer

Interior lights work? this is the DIM to the odometer

Try pushing the english to metric switch & / or trip reset. Those are the ENG/METRIC & TRIP RESET to the odometer


Odometer does get fed from the VSS (same lt green wire that your radio uses) this is the VSS to the odometer
C2 Pin 8 on the PCM takes the VSS reading wiring goes to cruise control, radio & directly to a pin to the odometer
Not sure thats what your harness or programmer has told you?

Actual ground lands behind the right A pillar kick pad
Any idea how they bypassed the oil pressure kill? (also involved with ^^that gnd)

Cluster also uses left hand kick pad gnd but NOT for odometer

Just ask yourself....which of these areas did I compromise with my big paws?
THAT's where the answer is Arrow .. Laughing




_________________
Steve


96BBB 28K 3.42 Bolt-ons
95BBB 100K 3.73 383 New DD...already broke fixt the 4L60E twice
95 Black WB4 Hole...ee...grail
96 Black WB4 No holes in this
95BBB 189K 3.08 Old DD Stolen...by Matt. Cool
Whine..eee...Silver LS6
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boojum



Posts : 2152
Join date : 2009-01-21
Age : 29
Location : NH

PostSubject: Re: 96 Odometer not showing...Could use some ideas...   Thu Oct 18, 2012 7:47 pm

For 94s and 95s the mileage is stored in the digital display module. These modules do not interchange between 94 and 95 ( at least on the ones I've seen) but you can swap the entire instrument panel.
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Pooge



Posts : 1698
Join date : 2009-03-24

PostSubject: Re: 96 Odometer not showing...Could use some ideas...   Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:45 pm

Steve-

I have tried most of the things you have mentioned, but I did not think about the interior lights...I will dig into it this weekend.

The harness I am referring to is the engine wiring harness, which plugs into the factory plugs just inside the firewall, complete plug and play harness.

I checked all connections from the engine harness, but not grounds, and I did not consider how much damage a couple catchers mitts can cause while plugging in wiring, so I will double check that.

AC/DRL fuse is good

Dimmer switch works, every fuse in the block has been tested

Interior lights will be tested, never noticed or thought of it, he'll I only use it during the day.

Metric/reset switch has been tested and replaced, does NOTHING... Hmmm...

Lots to test this weekend, keep the ideas coming!








_________________
1996 Impala SS - 45K original miles - 5.3 LS swap - Brand new Bilsteins...WHAT A DIFFERENCE!
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Cadet57



Posts : 4476
Join date : 2010-03-14
Age : 29
Location : Chicopee, MA

PostSubject: Re: 96 Odometer not showing...Could use some ideas...   Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:21 pm

Did you use a TBI fuel pump by accident?

Wait... that won't help here.

I wish I actually had something constructive to add. I hate electrical shit. Such a pita to fix. Looks like Steve has you on a good path thou Arrow
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1984twodoor



Posts : 4059
Join date : 2010-03-30
Age : 23
Location : Wilmington/Wakefield/Andover

PostSubject: Re: 96 Odometer not showing...Could use some ideas...   Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:29 pm

Shot in the dark going off of Steve's idea. A lose or missing pin in the harness or whatever plugs the cluster into the body harness?
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Pooge



Posts : 1698
Join date : 2009-03-24

PostSubject: Re: 96 Odometer not showing...Could use some ideas...   Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:03 pm

OK, a little update...

-Interior lights work
-Dash lights all dim
-Radio dims with dash lights
-Ground at passenger A pillar is solid

Still no Odometer. I am pretty sure it is just the illumination of the Odometer that is the issue, at least that is my hunch. I think I need to get down to what wires feed lighting to it...

I'd like to get the pin-locations for these wires on the dash-side pin-out for the cluster so i can test them.
-A/C DRL (Fuse 20) = 10A = good? This is the IGN power to odometer
-Dimmer switch work on all the other cluster lights?= INT DIM (Fuse 42) = 10A This is the STEP DIM to the odometer
-Interior lights work? this is the DIM to the odometer

I assume (1) is the Left pin-out? And that they start top left? And is that top left of pin-outs in dash - It is according to this link: http://www.gmassie.net/13secss/z28_pinouts.html

A few links I have been looking at...I know the info is there, I just can't figure it out...
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/u/super10/Z%20clusters/Wiring%20Diagram%20for%2096%20Impala%20SS.htm
http://www.goldsswagon.com/diagrams/impala_96cluster_1of2.pdf
http://www.goldsswagon.com/diagrams/impala_96cluster_2of2.pdf
http://www.goldsswagon.com/diagrams/impala_intrument_illumination.pdf
http://www.gmassie.net/13secss/z28_pinouts.html

I think...
-1A4 should be a grey wire and be Dim in to cluster, so should be hot (Z28 link confirms this)
-1A6 is step Dim and should be hot with parking lights on (Z28 link call it 2B2)
-2A5 should be DRL and hot while running (Z28 link confirms this)

I'm still trucking along... what a PITA... As always, any ideas are welcome!

_________________
1996 Impala SS - 45K original miles - 5.3 LS swap - Brand new Bilsteins...WHAT A DIFFERENCE!


Last edited by Pooge on Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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sdstick



Posts : 4278
Join date : 2009-03-20
Location : Revere, MA

PostSubject: Re: 96 Odometer not showing...Could use some ideas...   Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:13 pm

Odometer shown top left of this:

http://ss.lencolab.com/diagrams/impala_96cluster_1of2.pdf

VSS, English Metric & reset switch
also ground shown here:

http://ss.lencolab.com/diagrams/impala_96cluster_2of2.pdf

I had to jump back & forth but look at 1 wire at a time

Also, I mentioned the radio because the VSS wire goes there for the auto volume feature

_________________
Steve


96BBB 28K 3.42 Bolt-ons
95BBB 100K 3.73 383 New DD...already broke fixt the 4L60E twice
95 Black WB4 Hole...ee...grail
96 Black WB4 No holes in this
95BBB 189K 3.08 Old DD Stolen...by Matt. Cool
Whine..eee...Silver LS6
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Pooge



Posts : 1698
Join date : 2009-03-24

PostSubject: Re: 96 Odometer not showing...Could use some ideas...   Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:31 pm

Good stuff, I will be doing some more testing tonight when i get home.

I am pretty much ruling out VSS because I have the speedo working perfectly... You think that is a bad idea to rule out? I just assume that since they share the feed and one works that is is likely not that...

_________________
1996 Impala SS - 45K original miles - 5.3 LS swap - Brand new Bilsteins...WHAT A DIFFERENCE!
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sdstick



Posts : 4278
Join date : 2009-03-20
Location : Revere, MA

PostSubject: Re: 96 Odometer not showing...Could use some ideas...   Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:44 pm

I think it has to be power or ground myself

I mean...what does it take to light a circuit right?

It would be different if you said it was erratic or something....

And I'm sure the VSS is only to advance the mileage...once again...not your problem at the moment


_________________
Steve


96BBB 28K 3.42 Bolt-ons
95BBB 100K 3.73 383 New DD...already broke fixt the 4L60E twice
95 Black WB4 Hole...ee...grail
96 Black WB4 No holes in this
95BBB 189K 3.08 Old DD Stolen...by Matt. Cool
Whine..eee...Silver LS6
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Pooge



Posts : 1698
Join date : 2009-03-24

PostSubject: Re: 96 Odometer not showing...Could use some ideas...   Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:10 pm

43,980 miles!

Culprit was a break in the brown wire that runs from the cluster to the Twilight Sentinal.

I will break it down a bit more when I am at a real computer tomorrow, i am only on my IPad right now.

Thanks Steve for the help diagnosing! I had the same idea on the #20 fuse, but you pointing it out and pushing me to break it down to those 3 power wires was the kick i needed to tear my car apart when the fuse was working. It took a couple hours of tracing wires, but I found the bastard!

Thanks!

_________________
1996 Impala SS - 45K original miles - 5.3 LS swap - Brand new Bilsteins...WHAT A DIFFERENCE!
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Cadet57



Posts : 4476
Join date : 2010-03-14
Age : 29
Location : Chicopee, MA

PostSubject: Re: 96 Odometer not showing...Could use some ideas...   Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:12 pm

Pooge wrote:
43,980 miles!

Culprit was a break in the brown wire that runs from the cluster to the Twilight Sentinal.

I will break it down a bit more when I am at a real computer tomorrow, i am only on my IPad right now.

Thanks Steve for the help diagnosing! I had the same idea on the #20 fuse, but you pointing it out and pushing me to break it down to those 3 power wires was the kick i needed to tear my car apart when the fuse was working. It took a couple hours of tracing wires, but I found the bastard!

Thanks!

cheers

Awesome.
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sdstick



Posts : 4278
Join date : 2009-03-20
Location : Revere, MA

PostSubject: Re: 96 Odometer not showing...Could use some ideas...   Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:44 pm

Glad you found it...
Now button that beauty up, take it out & make sure it adds a mile or two. elephant

Dont forget to hit the trip reset after....= fully functional



_________________
Steve


96BBB 28K 3.42 Bolt-ons
95BBB 100K 3.73 383 New DD...already broke fixt the 4L60E twice
95 Black WB4 Hole...ee...grail
96 Black WB4 No holes in this
95BBB 189K 3.08 Old DD Stolen...by Matt. Cool
Whine..eee...Silver LS6
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Pooge



Posts : 1698
Join date : 2009-03-24

PostSubject: Re: 96 Odometer not showing...Could use some ideas...   Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:42 am

OK, so the issue was pretty simple. The 96 Impala is known for having one glaring fault, If you pull the #20 fuse the odometer disappears and does not count mileage. It is also know for having 3 resisters that can burn up and make a weak or no display. After replacing both of those things I knew I was going to have to go in deep.

Once Steve and I narrowed it down to having to be a power issue it only left 3 wires to check, which was pretty easy once I figured out were they were on the pin-outs. I knew right away that it was the power feed, not a dimmer, and it made sense that it was giving the same symptoms of having the #20 fuse pulled. Next step was tearing the dash apart and tracing the wire from the back of the fusebox to under the dash and then to the TS module.

Initially I traced the wire all the way through a connector and across the car to the TS module, Once I started checking at different places for power, I realized I had no power after the connector, but I had power directly out of the connector....

This car has an alarm system of some kind poorly installed under the dash, to the point that if I found a complete interior harness I would likely grab it. The brown wire I was tracing ran right next to one of the wires that is tied into the alarm system and sure enough I found a taped up part of the brown wire in that area. After opening it up I found a lost connection from a previous break.

It all makes sense now, because I had seen the mileage once before, but after the build had nothing showing. One of the big things I did while waiting for parts during the build was clean the car and tuck up the loose wires under the dash. My assumption is that I moved that wire just enough to dislodge it.

Problem solved! I hate that it kept me from driving the car more than a couple shake down runs, but now I know that next year with a new set of tires sitting in the garage and a suspension rebuild planned for this winter, I will be ready to rock come spring!

Thanks guys!

Doug

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