BADASS of New England

An automobile club for the enthusiast who enjoys the last of the big GM cars. The rear wheel drive B and D bodys. Chevrolet Impala SS, Caprice, 9C1, Buick Roadmaster, Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser, Cadillac Fleetwood
 
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 94 Lt1 into a 96, what's it take?

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96Brougham



Posts : 819
Join date : 2009-02-02
Age : 28
Location : Easton MA

PostSubject: 94 Lt1 into a 96, what's it take?   Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:21 am

What's up guys. That 96 Fleetwood my stepfather just picked up from Florida needs an engine, so we picked up one out of a 94. Got the PCM also. I though it was as easy as swapping the engine and PCM, but after reading on the SS forum, seems like we will have to swap timing covers, knock sensor, couple other things, and that the 94 PCM won't work on the 96 Transmission. What's it going to take to make this work? Thanks guys -Paul
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Cadet57



Posts : 4476
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Age : 29
Location : Chicopee, MA

PostSubject: Re: 94 Lt1 into a 96, what's it take?   Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:24 am

There was a thread on this, by Ironfistdog I think. I tried using the search thinger but it didn't find anything. So, actually, not really sure this was worth posting. Embarassed
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IMPALADAKID
Admin


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Age : 48

PostSubject: Re: 94 Lt1 into a 96, what's it take?   Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:31 am

I am not 100% sure Paul, but I would say the biggest problem will be the lack of a crank trigger on the 94 motor. On the 96, it is in the front cover, and is needed to be obd2 compliant. There may be a way to do it through programming using the opti to read crank position, but I am not sure. Knock sensors do need to be replaced with 96 versions.
That is all I have. If you were going the other way, it would be so much easier.

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No Moa



Posts : 3870
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Age : 44
Location : Midcoast Maine

PostSubject: Re: 94 Lt1 into a 96, what's it take?   Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:45 pm

Need to use the 94-95 tranny also i think, doesn't the 96 tranny differ from the other 2? Jayson went over this with me years ago, might be worth talking to him Paul.

And i think the 96 has rear of the cats o2. Not that you'd need them.
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Ironfistdog



Posts : 2124
Join date : 2011-01-11
Age : 35
Location : Warren, MA

PostSubject: Re: 94 Lt1 into a 96, what's it take?   Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:24 pm

The PCM from the 94 along with the engine WILL work in the car. I explained to him that he will be losing the obd2 which he said was fine.
As far as the transmission You can take the tails shaft housing and vss from the blown 94 black tranny and swap it to the original 96 trans. and if he wants the TCC lockup to work you must do one of the following:

An additional wire must be run from the PCM pin TBD to pin TBD on the trans harness for the TCC to work. Also, the PCM must be reprogrammed with ’95 transmission base code.

Mod A (method 2):
Swap the ’94 internal harness into '95-’96 transmission, leave PWM solenoid unplugged but installed. On the valve directly to the right of the PWM solenoid – push that valve all the way towards the outside of the valvebody , push it against the side of the valvebody and stake it into place. That’ll lock down your PWM function and it’ll function like a regular lockup. No PCM reprogramming required.

No mods to the motor need to be done. The crank position sensor knock sensors and cats are all for the 96 PCM to read. The car itself doesn't give a shit about any of those sensors. your transplanting a 94's brain and muscle into a 96 shell.
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96Brougham



Posts : 819
Join date : 2009-02-02
Age : 28
Location : Easton MA

PostSubject: Re: 94 Lt1 into a 96, what's it take?   Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:08 am

Hey guys, finally got the swap done, couple issues;

E-fans run all the time once the key is "on"
Car idles rough, only when warm
Check engine light now on, cannot communicate to the PCM through the obdII port, since the PCM is now obdI.

Any ideas? Thanks -Paul
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Ironfistdog



Posts : 2124
Join date : 2011-01-11
Age : 35
Location : Warren, MA

PostSubject: Re: 94 Lt1 into a 96, what's it take?   Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:16 am

Paul did you check the codes through the climate control?
Did you replace the spark plug wires or use what I had on there?
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GasTT



Posts : 2675
Join date : 2009-01-19
Age : 28
Location : Treasure Coast, FL

PostSubject: Re: 94 Lt1 into a 96, what's it take?   Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:16 am

Try to pull codes from the climate control.

Bastard beat me to it lol
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96Brougham



Posts : 819
Join date : 2009-02-02
Age : 28
Location : Easton MA

PostSubject: Re: 94 Lt1 into a 96, what's it take?   Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:00 am

New plug wires- totally forgot about pulling codes through the climate control- refresh my memory lol, how do I go about doing this?
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GasTT



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Age : 28
Location : Treasure Coast, FL

PostSubject: Re: 94 Lt1 into a 96, what's it take?   Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:47 am

http://ex-vtc.gotdns.com/downloads/Roadmaster_HVAC.pdf
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95brmw



Posts : 1431
Join date : 2009-11-10
Age : 32
Location : Connecticut

PostSubject: Re: 94 Lt1 into a 96, what's it take?   Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:52 pm

GasTT wrote:
http://ex-vtc.gotdns.com/downloads/Roadmaster_HVAC.pdf

I gotta update that thing, the Fleetwood is similar but the buttons are labeled different. Instead of the "middle" button you have to use the outside temp button on the FW.
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GasTT



Posts : 2675
Join date : 2009-01-19
Age : 28
Location : Treasure Coast, FL

PostSubject: Re: 94 Lt1 into a 96, what's it take?   Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:56 pm

Ive got a buick unit in my fleet so its not biggie to me.
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Tomz9C1



Posts : 1486
Join date : 2009-01-21
Age : 53
Location : Rumford, Maine

PostSubject: Re: 94 Lt1 into a 96, what's it take?   Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:20 pm

Ironfistdog wrote:
The PCM from the 94 along with the engine WILL work in the car. I explained to him that he will be losing the obd2 which he said was fine.
As far as the transmission You can take the tails shaft housing and vss from the blown 94 black tranny and swap it to the original 96 trans. and if he wants the TCC lockup to work you must do one of the following:

An additional wire must be run from the PCM pin TBD to pin TBD on the trans harness for the TCC to work. Also, the PCM must be reprogrammed with ’95 transmission base code.

Mod A (method 2):
Swap the ’94 internal harness into '95-’96 transmission, leave PWM solenoid unplugged but installed. On the valve directly to the right of the PWM solenoid – push that valve all the way towards the outside of the valvebody , push it against the side of the valvebody and stake it into place. That’ll lock down your PWM function and it’ll function like a regular lockup. No PCM reprogramming required.

No mods to the motor need to be done. The crank position sensor knock sensors and cats are all for the 96 PCM to read. The car itself doesn't give a shit about any of those sensors. your transplanting a 94's brain and muscle into a 96 shell.

Just did this to my 94 9C1, installed my 95 Probuilt into the 94 and staked the TCC lock up , works perfect, except for the fans do stay on as I just read in the previous post. ???
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sdstick



Posts : 4278
Join date : 2009-03-20
Location : Revere, MA

PostSubject: Re: 94 Lt1 into a 96, what's it take?   Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:04 pm

2 fans = unplugged MAF?

Only suggest this cuz I've forgotten to plug it in once or twice... Laughing

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GasTT



Posts : 2675
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Age : 28
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PostSubject: Re: 94 Lt1 into a 96, what's it take?   Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:14 pm

If the water pump coolant temp sensor is unplugged both fans will run constant.
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Tomz9C1



Posts : 1486
Join date : 2009-01-21
Age : 53
Location : Rumford, Maine

PostSubject: Re: 94 Lt1 into a 96, what's it take?   Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:03 pm

Both plugged in, course It will be another 6 weeks b4 I get back to check it. The list never ends! lol.
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Ironfistdog



Posts : 2124
Join date : 2011-01-11
Age : 35
Location : Warren, MA

PostSubject: Re: 94 Lt1 into a 96, what's it take?   Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:42 pm

Could it have anything to do with the obd plug?
You know how if you try and do the jumper method on a 94/95 Caprice it starts the fans???
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96Brougham



Posts : 819
Join date : 2009-02-02
Age : 28
Location : Easton MA

PostSubject: Re: 94 Lt1 into a 96, what's it take?   Thu Oct 18, 2012 6:14 pm

Cannot access anything through the climate control.. Nothing shows up
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95brmw



Posts : 1431
Join date : 2009-11-10
Age : 32
Location : Connecticut

PostSubject: Re: 94 Lt1 into a 96, what's it take?   Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:49 pm

The fan coming on could be a number of things. They usually come on when there is a CEL thrown for something that forces the car to stay in open loop like an important sensor (like the WP one or an O2).
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96Brougham



Posts : 819
Join date : 2009-02-02
Age : 28
Location : Easton MA

PostSubject: Re: 94 Lt1 into a 96, what's it take?   Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:36 pm

Sucks how I cannot communicate to figure out why the CEL is on, it could probably lead me to why the fans are on and why it runs like shit.. Not sure why the climate control thing doesn't work, I could hold the two buttons all day and nothing would happen
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Ironfistdog



Posts : 2124
Join date : 2011-01-11
Age : 35
Location : Warren, MA

PostSubject: Re: 94 Lt1 into a 96, what's it take?   Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:42 pm

Any interest in swapping in an obd1 port? Like splicing it directly into the PCM someplace in the engine compartment? I have the port and wiring still. The climate control should work unless it's a different plug pin out in the back. Seems HIGHLY unlikely
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96Brougham



Posts : 819
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Age : 28
Location : Easton MA

PostSubject: Re: 94 Lt1 into a 96, what's it take?   Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:00 pm

Hmm, I don't see why adding an obdI port would be so hard, the climate control thing I'm stumped. Both buttons individually work, the unit itself is fine. I just can't get it to go into a diag mode or anything
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Ironfistdog



Posts : 2124
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Age : 35
Location : Warren, MA

PostSubject: Re: 94 Lt1 into a 96, what's it take?   Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:03 am

Looks like the blue plug of the PCM the diagnostics wires
Also it's listed that pin 21 is the left knock sensor and 22 is the right in 96 but in 94/95 they only have the pin 22 (dk blue)

Pin 20 should be blk/white
Pin 29 should be tan
Pin 30 should be tan

All 3 Are listed as diagnostic port/serial data

20 looks like the output/enable wire and 29/30 Are serial data wires

On obd2 cars it looks like pin 7 is the class 2 serial data used ONLY for obd2 (purple wire) goes to pin 2 on the obd plug.
I would check the 3 (20/29/30) and see if they are there. Specifically that #20. Mind you that this is all B body related I will check my shop manuals for fleetwood when I get home.

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95brmw



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Age : 32
Location : Connecticut

PostSubject: Re: 94 Lt1 into a 96, what's it take?   Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:08 am

The communications wire is tan, you should be able to jump that wire from the PCM to the tan wire on the climate control temporarily to read the codes. You just have to find it on the PCM.
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PostSubject: Re: 94 Lt1 into a 96, what's it take?   Today at 12:58 pm

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