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 Rear ends???

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1984twodoor



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Location : Wilmington/Wakefield/Andover

PostSubject: Rear ends???   Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:12 pm

I heard before that you can swap in a G-body rear end into a B-body but am not sure. If I could find a GN or SS rear with posi already and better gears than 2.56 I would in a heart beat! A 3.42 or 3.55 ratio would seem good for a mild 350/700R4 with a shift kit.

Anyone know? any thoughts? if it works does anyone have one (Grumpy?) bounce

all input appreciated, even thread jacking. Arrow

Matt
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MASShole9C1



Posts : 4211
Join date : 2009-12-16

PostSubject: Re: Rear ends???   Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:38 pm

This may help. (my book marks come in handy)

8.5" GM 10 bolt- stock specs: 8.5" ring gear, 1.625" dia. pinion shaft, 28 spline axles.

This axle housing is the next step up the ladder in terms of strength and cost. The 8.5 10 bolt was the standard rear in the Buick Grand National , turbo T-types, '84 Hurst Olds, and the 442's of the 80's. The 8.5 identifies the ring gear diameter as it did with the 7.5 10 bolt. This rear is a much stronger piece for drag racing and running around the streets with a healthy motor and sticky tires. The 8.5 is a complete bolt-in operation for any G-body car. There are no modifications to be made to complete the swap. You can plan to spend about $600 and up to find a complete rear. This is your best option as far as low cost is concerned. The only down side to an 8.5 10 bolt is that there is limited parts available for this rear.

Note from Phillip: If you plan on using the stock TH350 drive shaft, it will need to be shortened. You need to accurately measure for the drive shaft, or damage may occur to the transmission. Go here for measuring tips and info: http://www.dennysdriveshaft.com/html/how_to_measure.html

http://www.maliburacing.com/tech_rearend_swaps.html

So, in reverse Matt, it will work. theres a yard near me that hoards G bodies, well, Monte Carlo SS G bodies. A good 3.73 posi will take care of your inquiry.
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toomanytoyz
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PostSubject: Re: Rear ends???   Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:40 pm

They are not wide enough. And our 8.5's are a 31 spline, IIRC. Much stronger.

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MASShole9C1



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PostSubject: Re: Rear ends???   Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:46 pm

Hmmm, well then. Maybe he can just swap an impala or 9c1 rear in. 3.08's and disc brakes are a plus cheers Or find a 9c1 that had the 3.23's in some L99 cars IIRC
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toomanytoyz
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PostSubject: Re: Rear ends???   Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:12 pm

The L99's got the 7.5" rear. Boo.

_________________
Bill "The Verb" Crovo - Resident Car Slut & Unicorn Hunter

A Toasted Marshmallow, A Long German, A Lame Suburban and expensive dreams...
Missing all my previous B's, D's and V... Sad
American Ricer
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"Ooooh! Look! Something shiny!"
NO MORE UNICORNS!!!!!

LOWER IT!!! Wink
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1984twodoor



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PostSubject: Re: Rear ends???   Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:16 pm

toomanytoyz wrote:
They are not wide enough. And our 8.5's are a 31 spline, IIRC. Much stronger.

Damn that's what I was afraid of! I remember hearing that the 2.56 pumpkin wont fit any of the gears I'd like to have, both my good rears are 2.56 Rolling Eyes go figure right?

MASShole9C1 wrote:
Hmmm, well then. Maybe he can just swap an impala or 9c1 rear in. 3.08's and disc brakes are a plus cheers Or find a 9c1 that had the 3.23's in some L99 cars IIRC

I know that would probably be the easiest most cost effective route, but I want to keep my Z28 wheels! I like how they look Laughing

I'm more than a newb to rear end tech so here is the first question: Can I swap in my axles into that impala/9C1 rear to keep the 5x4.75 lug pattern or do I HAVE to make the step up to 5x5?

TIA

Matt
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Machine-De-Zine



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PostSubject: Re: Rear ends???   Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:25 pm

1984twodoor wrote:
toomanytoyz wrote:
They are not wide enough. And our 8.5's are a 31 spline, IIRC. Much stronger.

Damn that's what I was afraid of! I remember hearing that the 2.56 pumpkin wont fit any of the gears I'd like to have, both my good rears are 2.56 Rolling Eyes go figure right?

MASShole9C1 wrote:
Hmmm, well then. Maybe he can just swap an impala or 9c1 rear in. 3.08's and disc brakes are a plus cheers Or find a 9c1 that had the 3.23's in some L99 cars IIRC

I know that would probably be the easiest most cost effective route, but I want to keep my Z28 wheels! I like how they look Laughing

I'm more than a newb to rear end tech so here is the first question: Can I swap in my axles into that impala/9C1 rear to keep the 5x4.75 lug pattern or do I HAVE to make the step up to 5x5?

TIA

Matt

The older GM 8.5"s were 28 spline and around 88-89 switched to 30 splines, 31 spline is the better version of the 9" Ford vs the weaker 28 9" Ford spline.

The housing is totally different from G to B body. Axles are not swap-able either. U & L control arm locations, shocks, pinion positions different, plus the brakes and backing plates on G-bodies are a JOKE!

You would be better off switching to 5" on 5 if you want the benefits of the 9C1 rear, the wheel choices are really not that terrible.

The 5x5 axle could be re-drilled for 5 on 4.75", but the larger (hub-centric) hub diameter would present a problem for wheel fitment.

If you want to keep the Z28 wheels, you could also order some 30 spline Moser axles for the 9C1 housing that will allow you to use B-body rear brakes and the correct smaller hub diameter.

This way you could have the 5x5 bolt pattern also drilled and your options will remain broader.

For the front rotors, use 11.88" OEM 9C1 rotors for your 5x5 wheels, and for 4.75" on 5 wheels, use 90s F-body 1LE rotors, having the same spindle & brakes, but a smaller wheel bolt pattern!
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sdstick



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PostSubject: Re: Rear ends???   Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:13 pm

Who's better then Glenn for the facts......damn

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toomanytoyz
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PostSubject: Re: Rear ends???   Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:16 pm

sdstick wrote:
Who's better then Glenn for the facts......damn

I doubt even the General himself. Wink

_________________
Bill "The Verb" Crovo - Resident Car Slut & Unicorn Hunter

A Toasted Marshmallow, A Long German, A Lame Suburban and expensive dreams...
Missing all my previous B's, D's and V... Sad
American Ricer
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"Ooooh! Look! Something shiny!"
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1984twodoor



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PostSubject: Re: Rear ends???   Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:59 pm

Machine-De-Zine wrote:
1984twodoor wrote:
toomanytoyz wrote:
They are not wide enough. And our 8.5's are a 31 spline, IIRC. Much stronger.

Damn that's what I was afraid of! I remember hearing that the 2.56 pumpkin wont fit any of the gears I'd like to have, both my good rears are 2.56 Rolling Eyes go figure right?

MASShole9C1 wrote:
Hmmm, well then. Maybe he can just swap an impala or 9c1 rear in. 3.08's and disc brakes are a plus cheers Or find a 9c1 that had the 3.23's in some L99 cars IIRC

I know that would probably be the easiest most cost effective route, but I want to keep my Z28 wheels! I like how they look Laughing

I'm more than a newb to rear end tech so here is the first question: Can I swap in my axles into that impala/9C1 rear to keep the 5x4.75 lug pattern or do I HAVE to make the step up to 5x5?

TIA

Matt

The older GM 8.5"s were 28 spline and around 88-89 switched to 30 splines, 31 spline is the better version of the 9" Ford vs the weaker 28 9" Ford spline.

The housing is totally different from G to B body. Axles are not swap-able either. U & L control arm locations, shocks, pinion positions different, plus the brakes and backing plates on G-bodies are a JOKE!

You would be better off switching to 5" on 5 if you want the benefits of the 9C1 rear, the wheel choices are really not that terrible.

The 5x5 axle could be re-drilled for 5 on 4.75", but the larger (hub-centric) hub diameter would present a problem for wheel fitment.

If you want to keep the Z28 wheels, you could also order some 30 spline Moser axles for the 9C1 housing that will allow you to use B-body rear brakes and the correct smaller hub diameter.

This way you could have the 5x5 bolt pattern also drilled and your options will remain broader.

For the front rotors, use 11.88" OEM 9C1 rotors for your 5x5 wheels, and for 4.75" on 5 wheels, use 90s F-body 1LE rotors, having the same spindle & brakes, but a smaller wheel bolt pattern!

Ok, so ditch that GN rear end search! I don't have a big problem dumping the wheels I have now, but I'd like to keep 'em because they look damn good on the car IMO. But form can't go over function on a car I want to drive not sit outside of and look at.

If the cost is not too much I am sure I could do the 9C1 rear with moser axles drilled for my 5 on 4.75 pattern. I would like to hear/read up more about this. But remember I don't need to go crazy like you did with your rear end!

what else should I know Glen, I'm all ears Smile
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GasTT



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PostSubject: Re: Rear ends???   Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:03 pm

toomanytoyz wrote:
The L99's got the 7.5" rear. Boo.

My Caprice came with L99 and 8.5" 3.23 posi rear and my L99 96 9c1 had a 8.5" 3.08 posi.
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toomanytoyz
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PostSubject: Re: Rear ends???   Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:31 am

GasTT wrote:
toomanytoyz wrote:
The L99's got the 7.5" rear. Boo.

My Caprice came with L99 and 8.5" 3.23 posi rear and my L99 96 9c1 had a 8.5" 3.08 posi.

I swore I said "some" L99's, but oh well. Razz

_________________
Bill "The Verb" Crovo - Resident Car Slut & Unicorn Hunter

A Toasted Marshmallow, A Long German, A Lame Suburban and expensive dreams...
Missing all my previous B's, D's and V... Sad
American Ricer
www.badassofne.net
"Ooooh! Look! Something shiny!"
NO MORE UNICORNS!!!!!

LOWER IT!!! Wink
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IMPALADAKID
Admin


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PostSubject: Re: Rear ends???   Sat Jul 14, 2012 6:22 am

toomanytoyz wrote:
GasTT wrote:
toomanytoyz wrote:
The L99's got the 7.5" rear. Boo.

My Caprice came with L99 and 8.5" 3.23 posi rear and my L99 96 9c1 had a 8.5" 3.08 posi.

I swore I said "some" L99's, but oh well. Razz
Stop swearing potty mouth. Razz

Yes the base L99 4.3 9C1 came with a disc brake, posi, 3.23 gears, 8.5 and 30 spline. Of course the posi was still an option. The biggest source for these rearends was New your City in the North East. I actually got one, and stuffed it in a 94 LT1 9C1.

As for the G-body Grand National rearend. Those were all 3.42 posi, 8.5 28 spline big drums. The mounting points are as mentioned all in the wrong place to mount on a B-body. If you want a needle in a haystack. Try finding a towing equipped 89-93 b-body with 3.42 and posi. You could then run a full set of Irocs with wheel hub spacers in the rear converting the bolt pattern back to 4.75. You would have to run a dognut for a spare as the front and rear irocks share the same width, but have different offsets. I think you would need at least a 1.25" spacer. I would say the end of the axle tube ends in about the same spot in the rear wheel well of both the B and g cars. I know when I tried mounting a set of Irocs on my Grand National, the rear tire made contact with the frame. A spacer would have been the answer.

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1984twodoor



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PostSubject: Re: Rear ends???   Sat Jul 14, 2012 11:49 am

IMPALADAKID wrote:
toomanytoyz wrote:
GasTT wrote:
toomanytoyz wrote:
The L99's got the 7.5" rear. Boo.

My Caprice came with L99 and 8.5" 3.23 posi rear and my L99 96 9c1 had a 8.5" 3.08 posi.

I swore I said "some" L99's, but oh well. Razz
Stop swearing potty mouth. Razz

Yes the base L99 4.3 9C1 came with a disc brake, posi, 3.23 gears, 8.5 and 30 spline. Of course the posi was still an option. The biggest source for these rearends was New your City in the North East. I actually got one, and stuffed it in a 94 LT1 9C1.

As for the G-body Grand National rearend. Those were all 3.42 posi, 8.5 28 spline big drums. The mounting points are as mentioned all in the wrong place to mount on a B-body. If you want a needle in a haystack. Try finding a towing equipped 89-93 b-body with 3.42 and posi. You could then run a full set of Irocs with wheel hub spacers in the rear converting the bolt pattern back to 4.75. You would have to run a dognut for a spare as the front and rear irocks share the same width, but have different offsets. I think you would need at least a 1.25" spacer. I would say the end of the axle tube ends in about the same spot in the rear wheel well of both the B and g cars. I know when I tried mounting a set of Irocs on my Grand National, the rear tire made contact with the frame. A spacer would have been the answer.

Billy you read my mind in bumping this because I need to bring it back up to figure out what I should run. I know a kid who run irocs on a caprice with no spacers though.

I want to start by saying that I have two rears I could use. A worn and rusty 2.7,8, or 9 something. And a very clean low miles 2.56 Neutral both peg legs. I would do a gear/carrier change or whatever is needed in one of them to make them more suitable for what the car will be but I don't know the first thing about rear ends and I wouldn't want to put money into the wrong one.

I think earlier in this thread it was mentioned that the 2.56 is a 7.5" housing and not really worth any gear changes as it's the smaller read end. then again if I could find a good one I would surely grab it, like out of that tow caprice but like you said billy, needle in a haystack! So my real question is can I do a gear swap in one of my rears OR change the axles and bolt pattern of an Impala SS rear for under say 400 to 500 bucks? I can't afford any custom one off rear end obviously, but I want to get the right rear for this car in while the body isn't in the way. Just a personal preference type of thing I guess.

OK Let the responses come on in! bounce I appreciate the help!
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IMPALADAKID
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PostSubject: Re: Rear ends???   Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:15 pm

If you just want to do a 3x5 bolt swap, just get a rear out of an ss or 9c1, and the king pins and rotors from said car as well. I think the front calipers will bot right up, and you would get posi, 3.08, and rear disc. You will also need both ebrake cables going to each outbord location.

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1984twodoor



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PostSubject: Re: Rear ends???   Sat Jul 14, 2012 4:09 pm

IMPALADAKID wrote:
If you just want to do a 3x5 bolt swap, just get a rear out of an ss or 9c1, and the king pins and rotors from said car as well. I think the front calipers will bot right up, and you would get posi, 3.08, and rear disc. You will also need both ebrake cables going to each outbord location.

This is good to know Arrow I think I might just end up doing this. I can buy two rally wheels in the 5x5 pattern and run my old 5x4.75 rallys up front and I'd be ok with that! I'll save the Z wheels for another caprice. Maybe the cougars replacement or something Cool

Hey I know that the rally wheels look good on the car so I have a feeling this is the way I'll go!



I would need the newer Disc/Disc prop valve also correct? Inline tube makes a conversion kit one that looks the same as stock and ends up in the same spot but I bet I could get away with a freebie at the J/Y too.
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Sweet Seventy9



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PostSubject: Re: Rear ends???   Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:56 am

1984twodoor wrote:
I can buy two rally wheels in the 5x5 pattern and run my old 5x4.75 rallys up front

You can order a pair from Paulsens with both 5x5 and 5x4.75 bolt patterns on 'em for fairly cheap: http://www.petepaulsen.com/home.html

They make the wheels themselves, so you can get any width and back spacing you want.
If you want to go wide, a 15x10 w/5" back spacing fits nicely under the backs of our cars. That's what I have.


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1984twodoor



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PostSubject: Re: Rear ends???   Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:10 am

Sweet Seventy9 wrote:
1984twodoor wrote:
I can buy two rally wheels in the 5x5 pattern and run my old 5x4.75 rallys up front

You can order a pair from Paulsens with <i>both</i> 5x5 and 5x4.75 bolt patterns on 'em for fairly cheap: http://www.petepaulsen.com/home.html

They make the wheels themselves, so you can get any width and back spacing you want.
If you want to go wide, a 15x10 w/5" back spacing fits nicely under the backs of our cars. That's what I have.



Sweet! Thanks for the link, it's been book marked. Now all I need is someone to have a rear for me! Shoulda moved on one when I could have Mad
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Sweet Seventy9



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PostSubject: Re: Rear ends???   Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:39 am

1984twodoor wrote:

Sweet! Thanks for the link, it's been book marked. Now all I need is someone to have a rear for me! Shoulda moved on one when I could have Mad

The salvage yard up the road from me has like a dozen 9c1's still. Off and on I've looked at a drum brake one in a 87 or 88 with 3.42 gears. I figure it's easy enough to convert it to discs sometime afterward.



If anybody else reading this post is interested, Art Dells, Rt 43, Defreestville ny has complete cars still with all the little goodies like the silicone hoses, oil/ps/trans coolers, cop dash clusters, 80's 3 gauge dash clusters w/sending units, rear ends - both disc and drum, interiors, suspensions, etc.
There's 3 or 4 Boxy's, the rest are Bubbles.



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MASShole9C1



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PostSubject: Re: Rear ends???   Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:52 am

You need to get pics of those B bodies and post them in the junk yard finds thread.
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bfurches



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PostSubject: Re: Rear ends???   Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:26 pm

Matt, when I sold my car I had two rears (both 8.5's). I THINK the kid might still ahve my spare rear. If he does....you can have that one. Another thing to keep in mind, is if you get aftermarket axles you can always have them drilled any patteren you want.

If you end up making any kind of power I strongly recomend having new ends put on the rear, or at the very least....c-clip eliminators (GOD I HATE THOSE THINGS).

Anyways....look at it like this.....it is a lot cheaper to have new ends welded on and a good set of axles then it is to hang and paint a new quarter when you loose an axle.

I just got VERY lucky when mine let go.....




...that was a 31 spline 8.5 axle with 3.73s
Let go on the street on a first gear hit from a roll. Wacked the bumper and quarter a little bit, but the worst part was the axle stabbed a hole in the wheel tub LOL.

Lesson learned.
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1984twodoor



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PostSubject: Re: Rear ends???   Sun Jul 22, 2012 1:15 am

MASShole9C1 wrote:
You need to get pics of those B bodies and post them in the junk yard finds thread.

x2 I might want some parts!

And Brandon I remember that! You put in an RMS rear correct? Either way I might have to take you up on that! I've gotta get something happening!

You'll have to explain more about strengthening them however, I know NOTHING about rear ends other than that my 7.5"s are not what I want to keep.

Though people here like Billy Mac have explained a bit, I need a visual I think.
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IMPALADAKID
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PostSubject: Re: Rear ends???   Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:03 pm

bfurches wrote:
Matt, when I sold my car I had two rears (both 8.5's). I THINK the kid might still ahve my spare rear. If he does....you can have that one. Another thing to keep in mind, is if you get aftermarket axles you can always have them drilled any patteren you want.

If you end up making any kind of power I strongly recomend having new ends put on the rear, or at the very least....c-clip eliminators (GOD I HATE THOSE THINGS).

Anyways....look at it like this.....it is a lot cheaper to have new ends welded on and a good set of axles then it is to hang and paint a new quarter when you loose an axle.

I just got VERY lucky when mine let go.....




...that was a 31 spline 8.5 axle with 3.73s
Let go on the street on a first gear hit from a roll. Wacked the bumper and quarter a little bit, but the worst part was the axle stabbed a hole in the wheel tub LOL.

Lesson learned.
The tire is stillon the road, so what's the problem? Razz

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bfurches



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PostSubject: Re: Rear ends???   Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:14 pm

lol, couldnt help yourself.

It was way funnier when we jacked up the car, slid the axle back in, and the AAA couldn't figure out why they where there.

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IMPALADAKID
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PostSubject: Re: Rear ends???   Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:24 pm

bfurches wrote:
lol, couldnt help yourself.

It was way funnier when we jacked up the car, slid the axle back in, and the AAA couldn't figure out why they where there.

Should have told them to take it for a ride, but wait til you get the video camera rolling. cheers

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BADASS of New England :: 77-90 Boxy Tech :: Boxy Modifications / Performance / maintenance-
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