BADASS of New England

An automobile club for the enthusiast who enjoys the last of the big GM cars. The rear wheel drive B and D bodys. Chevrolet Impala SS, Caprice, 9C1, Buick Roadmaster, Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser, Cadillac Fleetwood
 
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 Engine OUT?

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sdstick



Posts : 4278
Join date : 2009-03-20
Location : Revere, MA

PostSubject: Engine OUT?   Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:30 pm

Where do you attach brackets to R&R an LT1 motor?

I see the OEM bracket on the back (need a mirror to really see where its attached.
Looks kinda close to the firewall to catch it with a hook of any size.

Would this location change if you had aluminum heads?


_________________
Steve


96BBB 28K 3.42 Bolt-ons
95BBB 100K 3.73 383 New DD...already broke fixt the 4L60E twice
95 Black WB4 Hole...ee...grail
96 Black WB4 No holes in this
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toomanytoyz
Club President


Posts : 6870
Join date : 2009-01-20
Age : 40
Location : East Hampstead, NH USA

PostSubject: Re: Engine OUT?   Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:42 pm

I usually just put a bolt in each head, front and rear. Just opposite sides. Smile

_________________
Bill "The Verb" Crovo - Resident Car Slut & Unicorn Hunter

A Toasted Marshmallow, A Long German, A Lame Suburban and expensive dreams...
Missing all my previous B's, D's and V... Sad
American Ricer
www.badassofne.net
"Ooooh! Look! Something shiny!"
NO MORE UNICORNS!!!!!

LOWER IT!!! Wink
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sdstick



Posts : 4278
Join date : 2009-03-20
Location : Revere, MA

PostSubject: Re: Engine OUT?   Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:49 pm

Even in aluminum? Shocked

_________________
Steve


96BBB 28K 3.42 Bolt-ons
95BBB 100K 3.73 383 New DD...already broke fixt the 4L60E twice
95 Black WB4 Hole...ee...grail
96 Black WB4 No holes in this
95BBB 189K 3.08 Old DD Stolen...by Matt. Cool
Whine..eee...Silver LS6
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V8Killer



Posts : 1690
Join date : 2009-03-12
Age : 45
Location : Southern, NH

PostSubject: Re: Engine OUT?   Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:51 pm

toomanytoyz wrote:
I usually just put a bolt in each head, front and rear. Just opposite sides. Smile

X2, or take two intake bolts out, and put longer ones in for the the chain (again opposite ends and sides).
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V8Killer



Posts : 1690
Join date : 2009-03-12
Age : 45
Location : Southern, NH

PostSubject: Re: Engine OUT?   Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:53 pm

sdstick wrote:
Even in aluminum? Shocked

Yup. You can pick a 800 lb big-block up by just the four 5/16's carb studs. Shocked
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toomanytoyz
Club President


Posts : 6870
Join date : 2009-01-20
Age : 40
Location : East Hampstead, NH USA

PostSubject: Re: Engine OUT?   Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:53 pm

sdstick wrote:
Even in aluminum? Shocked

Yup. Smile

_________________
Bill "The Verb" Crovo - Resident Car Slut & Unicorn Hunter

A Toasted Marshmallow, A Long German, A Lame Suburban and expensive dreams...
Missing all my previous B's, D's and V... Sad
American Ricer
www.badassofne.net
"Ooooh! Look! Something shiny!"
NO MORE UNICORNS!!!!!

LOWER IT!!! Wink
Back to top Go down
http://impalass.uniquekind.net/
toomanytoyz
Club President


Posts : 6870
Join date : 2009-01-20
Age : 40
Location : East Hampstead, NH USA

PostSubject: Re: Engine OUT?   Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:53 pm

V8Killer wrote:
sdstick wrote:
Even in aluminum? Shocked

Yup. You can pick a 800 lb big-block up by just the four 5/16's carb studs. Shocked

Knock it off... LOL! Very Happy

_________________
Bill "The Verb" Crovo - Resident Car Slut & Unicorn Hunter

A Toasted Marshmallow, A Long German, A Lame Suburban and expensive dreams...
Missing all my previous B's, D's and V... Sad
American Ricer
www.badassofne.net
"Ooooh! Look! Something shiny!"
NO MORE UNICORNS!!!!!

LOWER IT!!! Wink
Back to top Go down
http://impalass.uniquekind.net/
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Engine OUT?   Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:54 pm

toomanytoyz wrote:
I usually just put a bolt in each head, front and rear. Just opposite sides. Smile

sdstick wrote:
Even in aluminum? Shocked
X3 even with aluminum heads. I would recommend removing that bracket, and run a slightly longer bolt that what holds the bracket. Run the other bolt in the hole left after removing the coil from the front drivers head.
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sdstick



Posts : 4278
Join date : 2009-03-20
Location : Revere, MA

PostSubject: Re: Engine OUT?   Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:57 pm

OK, thanks guys.
Exactly what I was looking for....reassurance from you Goodwrenches.

_________________
Steve


96BBB 28K 3.42 Bolt-ons
95BBB 100K 3.73 383 New DD...already broke fixt the 4L60E twice
95 Black WB4 Hole...ee...grail
96 Black WB4 No holes in this
95BBB 189K 3.08 Old DD Stolen...by Matt. Cool
Whine..eee...Silver LS6
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V8Killer



Posts : 1690
Join date : 2009-03-12
Age : 45
Location : Southern, NH

PostSubject: Re: Engine OUT?   Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:11 pm

toomanytoyz wrote:
V8Killer wrote:
sdstick wrote:
Even in aluminum? Shocked

Yup. You can pick a 800 lb big-block up by just the four 5/16's carb studs. Shocked

Knock it off... LOL! Very Happy

No, really......... Rolling Eyes

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toomanytoyz
Club President


Posts : 6870
Join date : 2009-01-20
Age : 40
Location : East Hampstead, NH USA

PostSubject: Re: Engine OUT?   Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:13 pm

^^^^^ Yeah, I know that. I meant stop saying the same thing I was saying. LOL Very Happy

_________________
Bill "The Verb" Crovo - Resident Car Slut & Unicorn Hunter

A Toasted Marshmallow, A Long German, A Lame Suburban and expensive dreams...
Missing all my previous B's, D's and V... Sad
American Ricer
www.badassofne.net
"Ooooh! Look! Something shiny!"
NO MORE UNICORNS!!!!!

LOWER IT!!! Wink
Back to top Go down
http://impalass.uniquekind.net/
Machine-De-Zine



Posts : 512
Join date : 2010-11-16
Age : 60
Location : Wrentham

PostSubject: Re: Engine OUT?   Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:29 pm

Be aware that engine sling chain links, if laid against your valve cover tin while lifting, will cause dents - if you are not careful.

My rule of thumb is, if the threaded holes are in decent shape:
Insert standard grade bolts into ferrous metals to engage at a depth of 1.5 bolt diameters.
Thread those same bolts into aluminum alloys to at least 2 bolt diameters of depth.
Therefore,
A 3/8" x 16 t.p.i. (UNC) steel bolt threaded into steel/iron will require at least 9/16" - (9 full turns)
Same bolt in aluminum should be 3/4" depth minimum, or 2 times .375", - (12 full turns)
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sdstick



Posts : 4278
Join date : 2009-03-20
Location : Revere, MA

PostSubject: Re: Engine OUT?   Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:59 pm

Just flashed me back to Mil-Spec...thread projection = 1-1/2 Dia's...lol

I was more afraid of failing alum then snapping a bolt.

I get Al's carb bracket (pretty amazing) because the tensile strength of the bolts is quite high.
The pivoting of the cherry picker hook doesnt allow shear stresses.
Bolts front & back of the heads = bending or combined stresses that are the worst.
I still would trust the bolt, just didnt want a chunk of the head fracturing off... No

THAT's why I asked the experts....thanks for the info Arrow

_________________
Steve


96BBB 28K 3.42 Bolt-ons
95BBB 100K 3.73 383 New DD...already broke fixt the 4L60E twice
95 Black WB4 Hole...ee...grail
96 Black WB4 No holes in this
95BBB 189K 3.08 Old DD Stolen...by Matt. Cool
Whine..eee...Silver LS6
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Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Engine OUT?   Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:06 pm

V8Killer wrote:
toomanytoyz wrote:
V8Killer wrote:
sdstick wrote:
Even in aluminum? Shocked

Yup. You can pick a 800 lb big-block up by just the four 5/16's carb studs. Shocked

Knock it off... LOL! Very Happy

No, really......... Rolling Eyes

Enough with the carb plate AL. This is not 1975 Austin Powersvitch and Fasha. No carbs here. Laughing



















J/K Al. I know what you meant. Wink
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boojum



Posts : 2152
Join date : 2009-01-21
Age : 29
Location : NH

PostSubject: Re: Engine OUT?   Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:55 pm

The new age LT1 version is the happy hooker:



http://tpis.com/parts/view/67

I try to use 4 chains if the tranny is still attached.

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Wraith'SS



Posts : 116
Join date : 2011-11-20
Age : 43
Location : South Shore

PostSubject: Re: Engine OUT?   Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:06 pm

boojum wrote:
The new age LT1 version is the happy hooker:



http://tpis.com/parts/view/67

I try to use 4 chains if the tranny is still attached.


Now that looks like I might make things easier for removal.. nice link.
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boojum



Posts : 2152
Join date : 2009-01-21
Age : 29
Location : NH

PostSubject: Re: Engine OUT?   Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:10 pm

I don't think I'd trust those tiny bolts but the F-Body guys use it.
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toomanytoyz
Club President


Posts : 6870
Join date : 2009-01-20
Age : 40
Location : East Hampstead, NH USA

PostSubject: Re: Engine OUT?   Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:53 pm

Ok, I don't get it... What does it bolt to? The top of the intake? Where the fuel rail bolts on?

_________________
Bill "The Verb" Crovo - Resident Car Slut & Unicorn Hunter

A Toasted Marshmallow, A Long German, A Lame Suburban and expensive dreams...
Missing all my previous B's, D's and V... Sad
American Ricer
www.badassofne.net
"Ooooh! Look! Something shiny!"
NO MORE UNICORNS!!!!!

LOWER IT!!! Wink
Back to top Go down
http://impalass.uniquekind.net/
Pooge



Posts : 1698
Join date : 2009-03-24

PostSubject: Re: Engine OUT?   Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:48 pm

Don't ask me how I know this, but if you have a spare throttle bracket laying around, you can yank the motor by the rear hook and then throttle bracket, it won't rip out...lol

I highly recommend you use bolts in the heads though.

_________________
1996 Impala SS - 45K original miles - 5.3 LS swap - Brand new Bilsteins...WHAT A DIFFERENCE!
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boojum



Posts : 2152
Join date : 2009-01-21
Age : 29
Location : NH

PostSubject: Re: Engine OUT?   Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:19 am

Yup, it uses the fuel rail bolts. Works on LS engines too if you want to upgrade.

Camaro guys use this to pull the engine out the top of 4th gens.

Oh, I just read the full description, carb guys can use it too!

From the web site:


The ultimate engine removal tool. We originally designed the Happy Hooker to take the engine out of our 94 World Challenge Camaro. The factory procedure is to remove the engine from the bottom which means removal of the entire front cross-member with suspension as well as the accessories and disconnection the brake lines. With the Happy Hooker you can lift the engine out the top in half the time it takes by the book. But this tool isn't specifically for the f-body cars. The plate is drilled to lift all TPI, LT, and LS engines. Also fits our MiniRam and Holly and Q-Jet carburators. Included with the Hooker are four 6mm and four 8mm bolts for all the factory fuel injected engines. On TPI cars, the plenum and runners need to be removed to bolt the Hooker to the fuel rails and on the LS engines the intake needs removal to bolt the Hooker to the valley cover
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sdstick



Posts : 4278
Join date : 2009-03-20
Location : Revere, MA

PostSubject: Re: Engine OUT?   Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:07 am

Guess I'll fab up a couple of brackets that use the heads.
I was looking at it wrong.
Once you start angling the motor in, those little tiny bolts are in shear.
Not worth being nervous about.

DS is easy (coil mtg)
PS? need to look & see where the OEM lifting bracket is bolted.

_________________
Steve


96BBB 28K 3.42 Bolt-ons
95BBB 100K 3.73 383 New DD...already broke fixt the 4L60E twice
95 Black WB4 Hole...ee...grail
96 Black WB4 No holes in this
95BBB 189K 3.08 Old DD Stolen...by Matt. Cool
Whine..eee...Silver LS6
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Machine-De-Zine



Posts : 512
Join date : 2010-11-16
Age : 60
Location : Wrentham

PostSubject: Re: Engine OUT?   Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:53 am

sdstick wrote:
Just flashed me back to Mil-Spec...thread projection = 1-1/2 Dia's...lol

I was more afraid of failing alum then snapping a bolt.

I get Al's carb bracket (pretty amazing) because the tensile strength of the bolts is quite high.
The pivoting of the cherry picker hook doesnt allow shear stresses.
Bolts front & back of the heads = bending or combined stresses that are the worst.
I still would trust the bolt, just didnt want a chunk of the head fracturing off... No

There are many equally satisfactory methods of engine removal.
Usually I pull the intake off, run a chain across diagonally from opposite intake bolt holes.
But EVERY engine I pull is being stripped down for re-building anyway.
This method is very secure, keeps the hood clearance height issues at bay, and makes the package that much lighter.
My favorite sling is 3/8" chain, one slightly bent steel tab on each end, and a double key-hole hook plate to adjust the balance point and over all length.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Heavy-Duty-1000lb-Engine-Lift-Hoist-Chain-Sling-Bridle-Link-Lock-34-Long-/330681293620?hash=item4cfe241b34&item=330681293620&pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&vxp=mtr#ht_3861wt_1165
This here (above link) is just one modern version of what I use, only mine is VERY old and well worn.
Mine also has dual key-holes to adjust the length and pivot balance point independently.
Putting the engine back in allows you to comfortably set up your hoist-routing strategy right there on the engine stand.
I have an entire drawer of my tool box FULL of hoisting paraphernalia.

You don't worry about snapping off chunks off aluminum cylinder head, if the bolts are "socked down" tight and two diameters deep.
I try to avoid bolting free chain links tight to the engine because the link can dent a customer's new expensive aluminum components.
Also in that case you would need to use a long bolt (more bending loads) and the chain usually shifts & twists when the load is fully applied.
I've seen where people use very long bolts (like starter motor bolts!) and when the weight is pulled up, the chain link suddenly slides to the end and bends or breaks off the long bolt!
I pull so many different kinds of things (not just engines) that it doesn't pay for me to have a variety of job specific pulling devices.

As was recommended before, attaching to the back of one head and to the front of other head works VERY well.
There is a "factory provided" hoist hook-plate on all of my LT1s that is on the back of the pass-side head straddling the rear steam vent pipe bolt. (see photo below)
You can use exhaust manifold opposing bolts too, but the valve covers will crush. (for most domestic engines, we have spare covers to put on that are all dented up already)
Those job specific pulling plates DO work well, just make absolutely SURE you have ALL bolts in place, the receiving threads are in great condition, to the full two bolt diameters in depth.
Go slow, have a second set of eyes and plenty of light to check for missed ground straps or harness wires, etc.
Good luck and have fun!

You wanted to see where the factory hoist hook plate was . . .
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No Moa



Posts : 3870
Join date : 2009-02-21
Age : 44
Location : Midcoast Maine

PostSubject: Re: Engine OUT?   Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:28 pm

Don't be a pussy. Git-r done!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRYIKS5mkVY&feature=youtube_gdata_player
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http://www.collectorfbody.com
Machine-De-Zine



Posts : 512
Join date : 2010-11-16
Age : 60
Location : Wrentham

PostSubject: Re: Engine OUT?   Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:02 pm

sdstick wrote:
Guess I'll fab up a couple of brackets that use the heads.
I was looking at it wrong.
Once you start angling the motor in, those little tiny bolts are in shear.
Not worth being nervous about.

DS is easy (coil mtg)
PS? need to look & see where the OEM lifting bracket is bolted.
If you had a spare OEM bracket, it will bolt to the front of the driver's side head exactly as it does on the rear passenger side head.

I was having a little fun messing around with the PhotoBucket tools!
Having a collection of old Chevy heads, I made some arrows pointing out the bracket & steam hole locations.
This is just a practice session, because I'm novice at this stuff.
Anybody good with Photoshop? I'd like to get THAT, (adobe CS-5) to learn those skills.
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GasTT



Posts : 2675
Join date : 2009-01-19
Age : 28
Location : Treasure Coast, FL

PostSubject: Re: Engine OUT?   Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:13 pm

Nice Newsday paper Wink
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Machine-De-Zine



Posts : 512
Join date : 2010-11-16
Age : 60
Location : Wrentham

PostSubject: Re: Engine OUT?   Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:35 pm

GasTT wrote:
Nice Newsday paper Wink
Sharp eyes!
I don't read any of those mind-rot rags! > newzday - daily newz - post - new york timez - etc.
It was serving it's best purpose rolling up around some spare Snap-On tool box drawer liners!

But you made no mention of the BBC "206" heads just above the Newsday. (#3856206 is a "206" head)
Casting date is the first few days of BBC production: Jan-Feb 1965, the rectangular port heads didn't come till slightly later on that year.
Smallest chamber (bathtub) 98cc, large oval port, I enlarged the intake & exhaust valves to 2.19" & 1.88".
My first "all out" porting job, every surface contoured, enlarged, modified - intakes, exhausts & chambers. Many, MANY years ago!
I took out several pounds of iron, but they now flow better than most "OEM based" rectangular port heads, & with higher port velocities.
They require the old school 13/16" spark plugs though.
http://www.nastyz28.com/bbcmenu.php#heads
The above charts show what each of these heads are - if anyone is interested.
Upon each head, Iv'e painted on the last three numerals of the casting number, found in the chart-listing).
In GM casting numbers, no two heads will have the same last three numerals, so we call out just those three.
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PostSubject: Re: Engine OUT?   Today at 7:25 pm

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