Lower rear control arm's!

I finally figured out the "clunking" noise coming from the rear of the purpala. I need to replace the lower control arms. Before I buy GM replacements I wanted to do a little research. Whats everyones thoughts and/or experiance with factory vs aftermarket? and does anyone have anything forsale? thanks for any and all input!

www.umiperformance.com

toomanytoyz wrote:

www.umiperformance.com

X2

Def. go aftermarket if you're replacing them or taking them out. I'm using stock GM stuff to add a bar to my Caprice, but only because I don't have to take out the arms.

IMPALADAKID wrote:

toomanytoyz wrote:

www.umiperformance.com

X2

I'm sure it has been discussed before, but whats the benefit of these? The caprice would be built as a street car...for now...and eventually evolve into more someday. But while the body is off the frame...Why not get it ready for that day? Right?

mikiehews wrote:

I finally figured out the "clunking" noise coming from the rear of the purpala. I need to replace the lower control arms. Before I buy GM replacements I wanted to do a little research. Whats everyones thoughts and/or experiance with factory vs aftermarket? and does anyone have anything forsale? thanks for any and all input!

This topic is near & dear to my heart.
Firstly, I strongly recommend that you (or anybody) about to decide what suspension components to buy (for our type cars) should read this excellent book.
http://www.amazon.com/Make-Your-Muscle-Handle-Performance/dp/1934709077
Read the reviews on amazon, This author owns/operates SCandC : suspension specialists (link below).
http://scandc.com/new/products -

These are the factory OEM arms with the correct sway bar hardware, they are surprisingly VERY good for stock vehicles and stock HP.
http://www.rmsautoparts.com/proddetail.php?prod=10289786

My favorite commercially available rear lower control arm is:
First: http://www.currieenterprises.com/cestore/searchresults.aspx?site=1&type=2&fullType=Part%20Number&text=CURRECTRAC (CE-9196L) & (CE-9196U)
Second: http://www.globalwest.net/1971-79belair.html - I don't think they make matching uppers
Third: http://www.umiperformance.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=4_76_168&products_id=280 also American made: a BIG plus for me!
Others I've seen: http://www.bluecollarperformance.com/mca0002.html = Metco Motorsports
http://www.bmrsuspension.com/?page=products&vehicleid=16&maincatid=50&catid=114
http://www.performancesuspension.com/traction-control-arms.html

F-body (82-92) rear lowers are the same fitment, but they DO NOT have provisions for sway-bar attachment, so you would have to hang that bar off the chassis.
These arms made by Spohn are a good example of a high quality part, http://scandc.com/new/node/99
* * * Be advised that some rear lower control arms that are made from only mild 1.5" diameter DOM tubing .120" wall are questionable in reliability
- when combined with heavy rear sway-bars due to the stress at the attachment lugs. * * *
I've seen them broken in half, where the welded-in tubes were ripped out of the 1.5" diameter lower control arm body tubing.
The Currie units are massively overbuilt (2" O.D. 1.250" threaded Johnny Joints - 0.375 wall bar stock), and the Global West pieces are also quite stout.

Remember that extended length lowers require extended rear uppers for re-establishing the proper pinion angle, and then you MUST check the driveshaft length issue.
I like the Currie Johnny Joint pieces because they are indestructible, rebuildable for cheap, modular, adjustable, have rod-end type swivel action, and operate silently!
I really never liked cylindrical urethane bushings at both ends due to binding, and of course the grunting/groaning/squeaking noises that ALWAYS return 25 miles after re-greasing them.
But , , , they are cheap to purchase initially.

i just ordered these.. nobody has a issue with them on the big forum

http://www.ebay.com/itm/91-96-B-BODY-IMPALA-SS-EXTENDED-REAR-TRAILING-ARMS-/270908162764?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item3f136282cc

96slowss wrote:

i just ordered these.. nobody has a issue with them on the big forum

http://www.ebay.com/itm/91-96-B-BODY-IMPALA-SS-EXTENDED-REAR-TRAILING-ARMS-/270908162764?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item3f136282cc

It was that brand arm that I saw broken in half. -> Driver's side, rear hole, with the heavy H.A. sway-bar, 1.5" diameter.
But, it was one of their round tube versions.
I think the manufacturer had ChroMoly thread inserts welded into a mild, drawn over mandrel (DOM) .120 wall x 1.500" round tube.
We had talked about how to properly weld chrome-molybdinum-steel to mild 1010 steel, while trying to determine if the weld had likely weakened the area that the sway-bar bolt thru-tube passed.

That company also makes a heavier box section lower arm for drag racing, but the uppers are non-adjustable.
They also make for some other applications (G-body perhaps) that incorporate Currie Johnny Joint components, no credit given though!
Also they have some versions that use standard Heim-joints, but you would HATE them! Noisier than an air powered, chassis-mounted 7X chipping gun.
I would like to say that if you talk to someone there, they could easily make for somebody who was interested, a pair of single J.J. adjustable lower arms (extended) along with a pair of extended uppers (with J.J. on the chassis side) to go with the kit.
But, if they are being made in china for them, then that might present a problem in fulfilling that request.
If you use a stock rear sway-bar, then breakage may be of no concern.
You also have the issue of kinematic binding from installing a rigid, single plane lower arm, stiff urethane bushings, while turning a corner and the car takes on it's natural lateral roll.
The uppers are even worse in that respect, and thats why I always use OEM rubber bushings in the upper arms where the budget won't allow more expensive pivot type joints.

With a johnny joint or spherical rod end at the body/frame end on all four arms, wouldn't you need a panhard bar to keep the rear end centered side to side? It would seem to me that if you ran those Currie uppers and lowers, then the rear end could move side to side at will?

toomanytoyz wrote:

With a johnny joint or spherical rod end at the body/frame end on all four arms, wouldn't you need a panhard bar to keep the rear end centered side to side? It would seem to me that if you ran those Currie uppers and lowers, then the rear end could move side to side at will?

The arms work even better with all 8 bushings able to articulate freely.
The side to side constraint is accomplished by the approximately 90 degrees of convergence in the upper two control arms.
This is what gives the triangulated four link its high roll center, the lowers are nearly parallel to each other offering little lateral resistance.
I would like to remove both uppers, and replace them with a single heavy duty longitudinal upper third link, and install an adjustable Watts link or Panhard bar.

I had to buy the Currie Johnny Joint uppers and lowers, then cut them apart to modify them for fore & aft J.J.s.
Also, the home-brewed 9"Ford rear housing had to be re-configured for upper ear replacement to install Johnny Joints there as well.
This set up will retain the standard triangulated 4-link geometry for now.

Does anybody care to see more pictures of this project? - - Yes or no, , ,
Here is but one photo of the Johnny Joint to illustrate just how massive the unit is.

Hotchkis!

Machine-De-Zine wrote:

Does anybody care to see more pictures of this project? - - Yes or no

Absolutely

Also, reasoning for the Ford 9"....
They always seem to show up in big-time builds but I never really knew why.
I always thought it was because they were narrower but...

Tougher than hell. 9 is fine ya know.

No Moa wrote:

Hotchkis!

Oh YES, I sure did forget about those.
But if you look at what you get for $725.00 (+ shipping) and realize that they are STILL only giving you 8 plain old Energy Suspension bushings all around, I'll pass on'em.
Theres no doubt that they are nice to look at, & no they will not break, but there is no way to avoid the many downsides to non-compliant cheap cylindrical urethane joints.
I repair, install, replace & modify these muscle car suspensions for a living, and I had given up on this triangulated four link rear bushing approach MANY years ago.
I'm very particular, & I have seen too many problems from their use. I don't even like them in front upper or lower control arms, and those only swing a simple arc.

These are way better, even used with stock OEM upper axle housing "ear" bushings, & are also adjustable in the car!

I paid $200 for my Hotckis rear stock length arms, I had a set of those adjustables. Did nothing for me. The stock hotchkis went right in, no adjustments, and they have spent more time sideways than straight.

No Moa wrote:

Tougher than hell. 9 is fine ya know.

The 9" is popular for several reasons, but there is also a down side. Friction!
I prefer the Dana 60, 9.750" for strength and efficiency. They are harder to swap out for quick gear changes at the track though.
The friction is due to the pinion center drop from the axle center line.
At 2.250", compared to 1.125" of the Dana 60, there is much more sliding of the gear faces, kind of like a worm gear.
http://www.truehi9.com/gears2.html
For REAL racing, there are some very bullet proof 9" Ford based designs, if the cubic money is there!
The other big advantage is that the pinion has a third bearing straddled behind the pinion gear teeth.
I love working on 9" fords, cause its so fast to achieve good results on gear patterning, and they don't come back like GM F-body rears do.
- Heres mine. 3.50:1 TruTrac, Forged 7075 pinion support, Strange aluminum race case, billet 1350 yoke, MW Pro Street axles.

No Moa wrote:

and they have spent more time sideways than straight.

AH-HAH!

My point exactly!

Try better stuff, and your car might just straighten out!

lol!

sdstick wrote:

Machine-De-Zine wrote:

Does anybody care to see more pictures of this project? - - Yes or no

Absolutely

This is where I spend entirely TOO much time!


This is the housing on the day that I decided to NOT keep OEM style upper axle housing ear bushings. Back to the cutting machines!


This is cutting the flanges for Johnny Joint sleeves.


Done.


Special tool Currie sells to R&R the Johnny Joint guts.


These are the Modified Currie Currectrac arms, these are powder coated and very heavy.

They were bolted together to avoid having them bang into each other and ruin the powder coating!

Machine-De-Zine wrote:

sdstick wrote:

Machine-De-Zine wrote:

Does anybody care to see more pictures of this project? - - Yes or no

Absolutely

This is where I spend entirely TOO much time!

We need to have a mod day at your house.

IMPALADAKID wrote:

Machine-De-Zine wrote:

sdstick wrote:

Machine-De-Zine wrote:

Does anybody care to see more pictures of this project? - - Yes or no

Absolutely

This is where I spend entirely TOO much time!

We have to have a mod day at your house.

I was just going to type that. But I can still second it!

So... MDZ... When we coming over?

toomanytoyz wrote:

So... MDZ... When we coming over?

When you drive to NYC

1984twodoor wrote:

toomanytoyz wrote:

So... MDZ... When we coming over?

When you drive to NYC

Then add another 60 miles!
I would love to host a mod-day, but all I have here is a big yard, & no shop, basement, garage bay, lift, or air compressor, so thats why I spend so much time at the job.
Newick's is well OVER three hundred miles away, 6 hours (+) drive, if no traffic (each way) and add in a pricey ferry ride both ways to give you some idea of the distance.
Really, I would be honored to host one if anybody thought it was worth the trip. Plenty of room here, & a big new cement driveway, but zero facilities for car repairs!
All those photos I posted of my tool boxes and machine tools are at the boss's shop, & he's not the type of guy to have a group of people HE doesn't know all up in his shop!
Also, there is usually some difficulty for even me to get a place to park near the shop whenever I go there, a real p.i.t.a., it depends on the time of day, midnight is best.

Machine-De-Zine wrote:

1984twodoor wrote:

toomanytoyz wrote:

So... MDZ... When we coming over?

When you drive to NYC

Then add another 60 miles!
I would love to host a mod-day, but all I have here is a big yard, & no shop, basement, garage bay, lift, or air compressor, so thats why I spend so much time at the job.
Newick's is well OVER three hundred miles away, 6 hours (+) drive, if no traffic (each way) and add in a pricey ferry ride both ways to give you some idea of the distance.
Really, I would be honored to host one if anybody thought it was worth the trip. Plenty of room here, & a big new cement driveway, but zero facilities for car repairs!
All those photos I posted of my tool boxes and machine tools are at the bosses shop, & he's not the type of guy to have a group of people HE doesn't know all up in his shop!
Also, there is usually some difficulty for even me to get a place to park near the shop whenever I go there, a real p.i.t.a., it depends on the time of day, midnight is best.

I'd gladly come down if I got to take some Boxy parts home! And by some I mean MANY

1984twodoor wrote:

Machine-De-Zine wrote:

1984twodoor wrote:

toomanytoyz wrote:

So... MDZ... When we coming over?

When you drive to NYC

Then add another 60 miles!

I'd gladly come down if I got to take some Boxy parts home! And by some I mean MANY

We should talk, I really need to start thinning out this fleet! (Not the ones in my Signature though)
But, every time I look at one of the cars, I say to my self, "its gotta go",
- then I think "but its got a G80 8.5" 3.23:1 9C1 rear", or "perfect chassis", or, , well you get the idea.

But lets stop "thread-jacking" here.

This thread is about Mikiehews's quest for the correct choice of rear lower (and upper) control arms, and I've put in my $0.02.

You have choices from used OEMs, new OEMs, cheap stock length, cheap extended, good, better & best aftermarket pieces.

Did you come up with any conclusions on how you want to resolve that clunk?

Buy the best, and they can stay with you through anything, including car changes.

Machine-De-Zine wrote:

1984twodoor wrote:

Machine-De-Zine wrote:

1984twodoor wrote:

toomanytoyz wrote:

So... MDZ... When we coming over?

When you drive to NYC

Then add another 60 miles!

I'd gladly come down if I got to take some Boxy parts home! And by some I mean MANY

We should talk, I really need to start thinning out this fleet! (Not the ones in my Signature though)
But, every time I look at one of the cars, I say to my self, "its gotta go",
- then I think "but its got a G80 8.5" 3.23:1 9C1 rear", or "perfect chassis", or, , well you get the idea.

But lets stop "thread-jacking" here.

This thread is about Mikiehews's quest for the correct choice of rear lower (and upper) control arms, and I've put in my $0.02.

You have choices from used OEMs, new OEMs, cheap stock length, cheap extended, good, better & best aftermarket pieces.

Did you come up with any conclusions on how you want to resolve that clunk?

Buy the best, and they can stay with you through anything, including car changes.

oh god I'm afraid if we do I wont have any money left and I'll need to build another shed for my parts!

Machine-De-Zine wrote:

I match your Bridgeport.


And raise you 6 Davenports.

I worked in a machine shop for a bit myself





/threadjack

mikiehews wrote:

I finally figured out the "clunking" noise coming from the rear of the purpala. I need to replace the lower control arms. Before I buy GM replacements I wanted to do a little research. Whats everyones thoughts and/or experiance with factory vs aftermarket? and does anyone have anything forsale? thanks for any and all input!

I was wondering if you had come to any conclusions on what course of action you mean to take.
The OEM arms from RMS are "out of stock" on the web page I've listed, but it DOES say to call them for availability.
Unless you have doubled your HP, or plan on doing serious competitive auto-crossing, stock arms are well engineered.
Their flexibility is intensional, and provides some benefits that are lost when switching to most aftermarket pieces.
It seems that this thread has been somewhat side-tracked, but I still want to know what you've decided to do.

Machine-De-Zine wrote:

mikiehews wrote:

I finally figured out the "clunking" noise coming from the rear of the purpala. I need to replace the lower control arms. Before I buy GM replacements I wanted to do a little research. Whats everyones thoughts and/or experiance with factory vs aftermarket? and does anyone have anything forsale? thanks for any and all input!

...........Unless you have doubled your HP, or plan on doing serious competitive auto-crossing, stock arms are well engineered.
Their flexibility is intensional, and provides some benefits that are lost when switching to most aftermarket pieces. ......

Funny, I the exact same words just came out of my mouth today (hadnt read this)

The adder to this is "unless you NEED to center your wheels in the well".
Below I give you my recommendation.
The only reason to choose 2), 3), or 4) is because you NEED to (read as REALLY WANT TO)
My personal experience is....
1) Go stock
or
2) Do JUST the lowers (non-extended) with stock uppers
or
3) Do aftermarket (non-extended)
or
4) Do aftermarkets (extended) but use johnny joint config.
That being said....just finished 4) OMG I'm in handling heaven....
Thanks Al, most comfortable I've EVER been with someone working on my car.

sdstick wrote:

Thanks Al, most comfortable I've EVER been with someone working on my car.

Even with a bunch of yahoos picking your (GORGEOUS) car apart????

toomanytoyz wrote:

sdstick wrote:

Thanks Al, most comfortable I've EVER been with someone working on my car.

Even with a bunch of yahoos picking your (GORGEOUS) car apart????

I made a mental note of my cars deficiencies .
I gotta get busy....
It was a tough crowd
1 of them was MUCH tougher then the others.

PS: There's not a spider or spider web in this world that could've survived that 30 minute ride home

PSS: Goin to your section now