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 All New Front End Parts

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Cadet57



Posts : 4475
Join date : 2010-03-14
Age : 29
Location : Chicopee, MA

PostSubject: All New Front End Parts   Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:54 am

I've been contemplating taking the Caprice off the road for the winter so I can have my leisure to get all the little and not so little projects done without having to pay for insurance and gas at the same time. One of my goals is all new front end parts. I've been going thru my FSM (I found it!) and made a list. If I'm missing anything please lmk also, if you have any suggestions for said parts please lmk. Thanks!

  • Idler arms
  • steering links
  • linkage relay
  • upper and lower control arms
  • shocks
  • springs
  • sway bar
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Ironfistdog



Posts : 2124
Join date : 2011-01-11
Age : 35
Location : Warren, MA

PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:56 am

Fixed---->

-idler arm and PITMAN arm
-steering linkage Rod
-inner and outer tie rods
-tie rod sleeves
- upper and lower a-arms & bushings
-upper and lower ball joints
- sway bar
- sway bar end links
- shocks
-coil springs
You might as well do spindles if your going all out! And paint the calipers!
* could always upgrade to a FWB or Buick steering linkage with the shock (forgot technical name)

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fatvet



Posts : 200
Join date : 2009-02-19
Age : 43
Location : Suffield, CT

PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:20 am

how the hell does the pitman arm get toast ?

i did not think that was a wear item? i have 200K on mine and no issues i can feel.

I just did

all 4 tie rods
2 tie rod sleeves
idler arm
2 upper BJ
2 Lower BJ

actually A51 did it i helped.
-ALF out...
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Ironfistdog



Posts : 2124
Join date : 2011-01-11
Age : 35
Location : Warren, MA

PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:34 am

Pitman arms don't usually wear out. But they can Rot away... My c-10 truck failed inspection for pitman arm. I was just merely listing the items involved in replacing the front end/steering.... If it was me id just pull the thing apart and--->

Replace tie rods and sleeves
Replace ball joints
Replace idler arm
Replace end links
Replace shocks
Replace wheel bearings
Sand blast coils, a-arms, spindles, sway bar, and hardware and just paint them to look nice/protect.

Say that gives me a goooooood idea........ Arrow

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Matt Trakker



Posts : 5068
Join date : 2009-07-30
Age : 35
Location : Reading, MA

PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:07 pm

There is some website where you can buy all of the front end parts like steering linkages as a complete set, but I forget the name of the site. Someone will probably chime in.

Use all Moog parts if you can... the factory ball joints are small and wear out, the Moog ones were huge in comparison, kind of a pain to press in place apparently.

I'd just replace what's immediately visible as worn to crap otherwise because you might dump a ton of money into this project then have the transmission explode or something...lol
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Cadet57



Posts : 4475
Join date : 2010-03-14
Age : 29
Location : Chicopee, MA

PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:11 pm

Matt Trakker wrote:
There is some website where you can buy all of the front end parts like steering linkages as a complete set, but I forget the name of the site. Someone will probably chime in.

That would make it so much easier. That way I know I wont have missed something.

Matt Trakker wrote:
Use all Moog parts if you can... the factory ball joints are small and wear out, the Moog ones were huge in comparison, kind of a pain to press in place apparently.

Yeah, I have Moog ball joints now. They're like a year and a half old cuz I failed inspection for ball joints when I bought the car. Laughing

Matt Trakker wrote:
I'd just replace what's immediately visible as worn to crap otherwise because you might dump a ton of money into this project then have the transmission explode or something...lol

Which is what I might do. I got to $590 with shipping from Rockauto Shocked Laughing
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Matt Trakker



Posts : 5068
Join date : 2009-07-30
Age : 35
Location : Reading, MA

PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:16 pm

Cadet57 wrote:
Matt Trakker wrote:
There is some website where you can buy all of the front end parts like steering linkages as a complete set, but I forget the name of the site. Someone will probably chime in.

That would make it so much easier. That way I know I wont have missed something.

Matt Trakker wrote:
Use all Moog parts if you can... the factory ball joints are small and wear out, the Moog ones were huge in comparison, kind of a pain to press in place apparently.

Yeah, I have Moog ball joints now. They're like a year and a half old cuz I failed inspection for ball joints when I bought the car. Laughing

Matt Trakker wrote:
I'd just replace what's immediately visible as worn to crap otherwise because you might dump a ton of money into this project then have the transmission explode or something...lol

Which is what I might do. I got to $590 with shipping from Rockauto Shocked Laughing

Check Amazon, I got some of my shyte through them I remember...
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fatvet



Posts : 200
Join date : 2009-02-19
Age : 43
Location : Suffield, CT

PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:25 pm

the big forum has this
place as where to get the parts all at once

http://www.proforged.com/


-ALF out.....
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2386222
Cadet57



Posts : 4475
Join date : 2010-03-14
Age : 29
Location : Chicopee, MA

PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:29 pm

fatvet wrote:
the big forum has this
place as where to get the parts all at once

http://www.proforged.com/


-ALF out.....

Wow, $312 without control arms, shocks, or springs. Do I *need* control arms? The ones on my car now are fine. Just kinda rusty and gross. Laughing I can save a lot by not doing them...
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Fishah



Posts : 1118
Join date : 2009-01-20
Age : 29
Location : Chicago, IL

PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:40 pm

Buy the proforged parts. They are AWESOME.

You don't need control arms.

Be sure to tighten up the gearbox while you're in there.



Last edited by Fishah on Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Fishah



Posts : 1118
Join date : 2009-01-20
Age : 29
Location : Chicago, IL

PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:41 pm

For the shocks/springs/swaybars, did you want to go aftermarket or OEM?
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Cadet57



Posts : 4475
Join date : 2010-03-14
Age : 29
Location : Chicopee, MA

PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:44 pm

Fishah wrote:
For the shocks/springs/swaybars, did you want to go aftermarket or OEM?

I was going to use cut 9C1 springs to get a bit of a rake going, and Monroe severe service shocks. No idea on the swaybar.
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sdstick



Posts : 4277
Join date : 2009-03-20
Location : Revere, MA

PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:57 pm

Control arms & swaybar are not wear items
While you have the front end apart, sand blast them if you want pretty (if you dont powdercoat they'll just go back to ratty in a couple years)
All you need is the bushings. You can reuse the upper ball joint (bolt in) I dont know about the bottom (pressed)
I assume that Proforged is Zack formally PPM? his parts are good
You can buy the same Moog P/N's on Amazon but Zack always claimed his were made special for him. (I have no idea)

_________________
Steve


96BBB 28K 3.42 Bolt-ons
95BBB 100K 3.73 383 New DD...already broke fixt the 4L60E twice
95 Black WB4 Hole...ee...grail
96 Black WB4 No holes in this
95BBB 189K 3.08 Old DD Stolen...by Matt. Cool
Whine..eee...Silver LS6
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95brmw



Posts : 1423
Join date : 2009-11-10
Age : 32
Location : Connecticut

PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:58 pm

Go with the proforged kit, they have the kit on sale today for $219 on the ISSF under group buys. I think the sale ends tonight. I put them on my 9C1 and am very happy with the results.
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Cadet57



Posts : 4475
Join date : 2010-03-14
Age : 29
Location : Chicopee, MA

PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:12 pm

95brmw wrote:
Go with the proforged kit, they have the kit on sale today for $219 on the ISSF under group buys. I think the sale ends tonight. I put them on my 9C1 and am very happy with the results.

Boooo... No extra monies til next week. Either way, this proforged kit seems like a good deal.
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jvette65



Posts : 111
Join date : 2010-02-16

PostSubject: Addition   Mon Nov 28, 2011 5:53 pm

Addition: check the steering column "rag joint" (aka: coupling, steering gear) for play, and check/ tighten the steering gear.

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Tomz9C1



Posts : 1483
Join date : 2009-01-21
Age : 53
Location : Rumford, Maine

PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:25 pm

95brmw wrote:
Go with the proforged kit, they have the kit on sale today for $219 on the ISSF under group buys. I think the sale ends tonight. I put them on my 9C1 and am very happy with the results.

Go with Zack, he's a good guy to deal on these kits. That's about what I paid 3-4 years ago, great price!
If you get the chance to sand blast & PC, DO IT! Arrow
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toomanytoyz
Club President


Posts : 6859
Join date : 2009-01-20
Age : 40
Location : East Hampstead, NH USA

PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:03 pm

fatvet wrote:
the big forum has this
place as where to get the parts all at once

http://www.proforged.com/


-ALF out.....

Thanks for that. Used Zach's stuff before when he was PPM. Smile

Just got the new front end for the Marshmallow! Thanks!!! Smile

/treadjack

_________________
Bill "The Verb" Crovo - Resident Car Slut & Unicorn Hunter

A Toasted Marshmallow, A Long German, A Lame Suburban and expensive dreams...
Missing all my previous B's, D's and V... Sad
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NO MORE UNICORNS!!!!!

LOWER IT!!! Wink
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Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:24 pm

I am not sure about the early cars, but every 94-96 frame I have looked at has the steering stabilizer bracket welded to the frame. If you have wide tires, or plan to run wide tires, I would recommend buying the Roadmaster/Fleetwood centerlink and a steering stabilizer to smooth the ride, and steering. This is most helpfull on a worn Box.
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Cadet57



Posts : 4475
Join date : 2010-03-14
Age : 29
Location : Chicopee, MA

PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:28 pm

IMPALADAKID wrote:
I am not sure about the early cars, but every 94-96 frame I have looked at has the steering stabilizer bracket welded to the frame. If you have wide tires, or plan to run wide tires, I would recommend buying the Roadmaster/Fleetwood centerlink and a steering stabilizer to smooth the ride, and steering. This is most helpfull on a worn Box.

What would your definition of "wide" be? Come spring i'll be running 235/75's on 15x8 truck rallys.
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sdstick



Posts : 4277
Join date : 2009-03-20
Location : Revere, MA

PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:43 pm

So Caprice wagons dont come with the steering stabilizer?

_________________
Steve


96BBB 28K 3.42 Bolt-ons
95BBB 100K 3.73 383 New DD...already broke fixt the 4L60E twice
95 Black WB4 Hole...ee...grail
96 Black WB4 No holes in this
95BBB 189K 3.08 Old DD Stolen...by Matt. Cool
Whine..eee...Silver LS6
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Guest



PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:45 pm

Cadet57 wrote:
IMPALADAKID wrote:
I am not sure about the early cars, but every 94-96 frame I have looked at has the steering stabilizer bracket welded to the frame. If you have wide tires, or plan to run wide tires, I would recommend buying the Roadmaster/Fleetwood centerlink and a steering stabilizer to smooth the ride, and steering. This is most helpfull on a worn Box.

What would your definition of "wide" be?
235/75's on 15x8 truck rallys. Razz

And don't you mean 235/70s?
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Cadet57



Posts : 4475
Join date : 2010-03-14
Age : 29
Location : Chicopee, MA

PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:48 pm

IMPALADAKID wrote:
Cadet57 wrote:
IMPALADAKID wrote:
I am not sure about the early cars, but every 94-96 frame I have looked at has the steering stabilizer bracket welded to the frame. If you have wide tires, or plan to run wide tires, I would recommend buying the Roadmaster/Fleetwood centerlink and a steering stabilizer to smooth the ride, and steering. This is most helpfull on a worn Box.

What would your definition of "wide" be?
235/75's on 15x8 truck rallys. Razz

And don't you mean 235/70s?

Then yes, I will be running wide tires. Razz

And yes, 235/75's. 75 is stock height... thou I really do like those Firehawk 500's in 235/70.....

sdstick wrote:
So Caprice wagons dont come with the steering stabilizer?

My wagon has a sway bar. Its shown in the FSM as well. Unless stabilizer bar and sway bar are two separate things?

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Fishah



Posts : 1118
Join date : 2009-01-20
Age : 29
Location : Chicago, IL

PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:58 pm

Cadet57 wrote:
IMPALADAKID wrote:
Cadet57 wrote:
IMPALADAKID wrote:
I am not sure about the early cars, but every 94-96 frame I have looked at has the steering stabilizer bracket welded to the frame. If you have wide tires, or plan to run wide tires, I would recommend buying the Roadmaster/Fleetwood centerlink and a steering stabilizer to smooth the ride, and steering. This is most helpfull on a worn Box.

What would your definition of "wide" be?
235/75's on 15x8 truck rallys. Razz

And don't you mean 235/70s?

Then yes, I will be running wide tires. Razz

And yes, 235/75's. 75 is stock height... thou I really do like those Firehawk 500's in 235/70.....

sdstick wrote:
So Caprice wagons dont come with the steering stabilizer?

My wagon has a sway bar. Its shown in the FSM as well. Unless stabilizer bar and sway bar are two separate things?


225/75/15 is stock height maybe, but it's definitely NOT 235/75/15.

The steering stabilizer was a Roadmaster option that connect to the Center-link and is part of the steering system. It is unrelated to the sway bar.

I don't think my TBI car had a mount for the steering stabilizer.
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sdstick



Posts : 4277
Join date : 2009-03-20
Location : Revere, MA

PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:00 pm

What Bill is saying is theres a special centerlink for RMW & FW's that accepts what the manual probably calls a steering dampner (or stabilizer). It attaches to the centerlink & to the frame, looks like a shock & dampens steering shock.
Yes stabilizer bar & swaybar are the same

_________________
Steve


96BBB 28K 3.42 Bolt-ons
95BBB 100K 3.73 383 New DD...already broke fixt the 4L60E twice
95 Black WB4 Hole...ee...grail
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Cadet57



Posts : 4475
Join date : 2010-03-14
Age : 29
Location : Chicopee, MA

PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:29 pm

[quote="sdstick"]What Bill is saying is theres a special centerlink for RMW & FW's that accepts what the manual probably calls a steering dampner (or stabilizer). It attaches to the centerlink & to the frame, looks like a shock & dampens steering shock.

Oh ok I gotcha.... Rockauto shows this for a fleetwood: ACDELCO Part # 509608, DAMPENER,STRG SHF 4 DOORS; FRT



sdstick wrote:
Yes stabilizer bar & swaybar are the same

That's what I thought. The FSM lists it as stabilizer bar.


Fishah wrote:

225/75/15 is stock height maybe, but it's definitely NOT 235/75/15.

My snows are 235/75. No difference in height from my 225/75 summer tires...
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Fishah



Posts : 1118
Join date : 2009-01-20
Age : 29
Location : Chicago, IL

PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:43 pm

[quote="Cadet57"]
sdstick wrote:
What Bill is saying is theres a special centerlink for RMW & FW's that accepts what the manual probably calls a steering dampner (or stabilizer). It attaches to the centerlink & to the frame, looks like a shock & dampens steering shock.

Oh ok I gotcha.... Rockauto shows this for a fleetwood: ACDELCO Part # 509608, DAMPENER,STRG SHF 4 DOORS; FRT



sdstick wrote:
Yes stabilizer bar & swaybar are the same

That's what I thought. The FSM lists it as stabilizer bar.


Fishah wrote:

225/75/15 is stock height maybe, but it's definitely NOT 235/75/15.

My snows are 235/75. No difference in height from my 225/75 summer tires...

No, that's wrong.

The 225/75/15 tires have a total height of 28.28 inches.
The 235/75/15 tires have a total height of 28.87 inches.

The second number (height) is a percentage of the first number (width in millimeters). So if the first number (width) is larger, and the second number (height) remains the same, then the overall height will be higher.

Example:

225/75/15 means:

The tread is 225 Millimeters wide
The sidewall height is 75% of 225 = 168.75MM

The 235/70/15 means:

The tread is 235 Millimeters wide
The sidewall height is 75% of the 235 = 176.25MM
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GasTT



Posts : 2675
Join date : 2009-01-19
Age : 28
Location : Treasure Coast, FL

PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:52 pm

Correct bill.

Justin, you want 235/70's. I have 225/75's on my caddy. My snow tires are 215/75's and are shorter.
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Matt Trakker



Posts : 5068
Join date : 2009-07-30
Age : 35
Location : Reading, MA

PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:32 pm

toomanytoyz wrote:
fatvet wrote:
the big forum has this
place as where to get the parts all at once

http://www.proforged.com/


-ALF out.....

Thanks for that. Used Zach's stuff before when he was PPM. Smile

Just got the new front end for the Marshmallow! Thanks!!! Smile

/treadjack

PPM is the site I was thinking of Cool

I don't recall seeing the bracket for a steering stabilizer under my car either
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95brmw



Posts : 1423
Join date : 2009-11-10
Age : 32
Location : Connecticut

PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:43 pm

I'll have to look and see but I think my 1A2 has the bracket but not my 9C1. I'm pretty sure my custom cruiser did not have one either.
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Cadet57



Posts : 4475
Join date : 2010-03-14
Age : 29
Location : Chicopee, MA

PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:46 pm

95brmw wrote:
I'll have to look and see but I think my 1A2 has the bracket but not my 9C1. I'm pretty sure my custom cruiser did not have one either.

If my car doesn't. What would it take for me to install one?
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Matt Trakker



Posts : 5068
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Age : 35
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PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Tue Nov 29, 2011 3:47 pm

I think it would have to be tack welded to the crossmember, or holes drilled and maybe bolted?
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Fishah



Posts : 1118
Join date : 2009-01-20
Age : 29
Location : Chicago, IL

PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:19 pm

If the bracket isn't already there, it's probably not worth the work to install. Many members remove the steering stabilizar from factory equipped cars anyway.... It's more a mattery of personal preference.
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Guest



PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:55 pm

Fishah wrote:
If the bracket isn't already there, it's probably not worth the work to install. Many members remove the steering stabilizar from factory equipped cars anyway.... It's more a mattery of personal preference.
^^^What Mr Chicago said.^^^
I like it on when car is equipped with SS rims, as it helps the car track better, or at least feel as it is.
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Cadet57



Posts : 4475
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Age : 29
Location : Chicopee, MA

PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Wed Dec 07, 2011 3:16 pm

My new parts are on their way. Also ordered new 9C1 springs and shocks. Lost my workspace for the winter so the kids at the Vocational hs are going to install everything including a 4 wheel alignment. Arrow
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Fishah



Posts : 1118
Join date : 2009-01-20
Age : 29
Location : Chicago, IL

PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:21 pm

Cadet57 wrote:
My new parts are on their way. Also ordered new 9C1 springs and shocks. Lost my workspace for the winter so the kids at the Vocational hs are going to install everything including a 4 wheel alignment. Arrow

Don't let the kids do your alignment unless you want to be forced to have somebody fix it immediatly afterwards.

Find an old guy whose been aligning cars for decades. Real good alignments are hard to come by, and worth every penny.
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Cadet57



Posts : 4475
Join date : 2010-03-14
Age : 29
Location : Chicopee, MA

PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:23 pm

Fishah wrote:
Cadet57 wrote:
My new parts are on their way. Also ordered new 9C1 springs and shocks. Lost my workspace for the winter so the kids at the Vocational hs are going to install everything including a 4 wheel alignment. Arrow

Don't let the kids do your alignment unless you want to be forced to have somebody fix it immediatly afterwards.

Find an old guy whose been aligning cars for decades. Real good alignments are hard to come by, and worth every penny.

They (well, the shop teacher) did it two years ago when I bought the car and it needed ball joints. He did a good job.
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Fishah



Posts : 1118
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PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:47 pm

Cadet57 wrote:
Fishah wrote:
Cadet57 wrote:
My new parts are on their way. Also ordered new 9C1 springs and shocks. Lost my workspace for the winter so the kids at the Vocational hs are going to install everything including a 4 wheel alignment. Arrow

Don't let the kids do your alignment unless you want to be forced to have somebody fix it immediatly afterwards.

Find an old guy whose been aligning cars for decades. Real good alignments are hard to come by, and worth every penny.

They (well, the shop teacher) did it two years ago when I bought the car and it needed ball joints. He did a good job.

So are you gonna let the Shop Teacher do it, or the kids?

Also, decent alignments feel good until you get a real good alignment and see what you've been missing.
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sdstick



Posts : 4277
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PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:51 pm

Fishah wrote:
Also, decent alignments feel good go a long way until you get a real good alignment and see what you've been missing.infinity & beyond feels like

fixt

_________________
Steve


96BBB 28K 3.42 Bolt-ons
95BBB 100K 3.73 383 New DD...already broke fixt the 4L60E twice
95 Black WB4 Hole...ee...grail
96 Black WB4 No holes in this
95BBB 189K 3.08 Old DD Stolen...by Matt. Cool
Whine..eee...Silver LS6
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Cadet57



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PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:55 pm

Fishah wrote:
So are you gonna let the Shop Teacher do it, or the kids?


Again... the shop teacher.

Fishah wrote:
Also, decent alignments feel good until you get a real good alignment and see what you've been missing.

As long as the car tracks straight and gives a smooth ride and wears the tires properly. I dont really care if its good or real good.
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GasTT



Posts : 2675
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Age : 28
Location : Treasure Coast, FL

PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:35 pm

The pro forge kit is $338 shipped, not including steering damper. These same parts, moog brand, with damper is $353 shipped via Rock Auto. I would assume that the pro forged parts are of much better quality than the moog? Need tie rods in my caddy may as well do the whole deal.
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PostSubject: Re: All New Front End Parts   Today at 1:28 pm

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All New Front End Parts
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