The Official 1987 Two Door Body Off RE-build Thread!

You already know what you need.

Don't put any near where you are going to weld for now. It won't come off with a pressure washer.

Did I read correctly that you used bare metal primer over the por15?
That's a big no-no.
Due to it's chemical makeup it will eat through most other paints/coatings and make them lose their adhesion.
Yup, I learned the hard way too.....

It's been my experience that por15 doesn't like smooth bare metal. It has always peeled off after a few months for me. I have a fender out in the shed right now that I can peel 12" strips of por15 off of because it was applied to a smooth rust free surface. Only the rough, rusty areas like the battery tray area aren't peeling.
You'll see better results from the PlastiKoat rust converter I told you about when applying it to smooth metal. (At least me and a couple of my friends have)

Por15 was "the shit" 20 years ago, but to be quite honest, I won't even use it anymore when there's so many other less expensive and somewhat better products out there.

boojum wrote:

I agree.

LOL Yes The SEM rust shield seems to be the highly recommended product. Being that they have a dealer in town for the stuff I might end up with that.


Honestly, I'm just waiting until most everyone weighs in here! I've obviously never done this stuff before, paint is still new to me so it's trial and error right now. I've just hit the error. Next time I don't want to.


So far the plan seems to be...

Sandblaster...

Then welding...

Then use Prep & Ready or some other form of acidic base to help adherence to the bare smooth metal...

Then the primer/paint combo is up in the air.




So if the rust shield is as good as you guys say on BARE SMOOTH METAL I will pick some up after everything above has been completed. I'm sure SEM makes a top coat that I can also go with.

Calling about sandblasting tomorrow I guess.

You should consider adding this product to your list of possible rust-conversion-paint candidates.

http://www.westernmarine.com/acrobat/bls.pdf

Its the only one I can actually vouch for, personally having used it, and with favorable results.

Consumed by the gallon at N.Y.C.T.A. Central Maintenance Facilities for in-house bus chassis refurbishing purposes.

Other suggestions below, , ,

http://www.corroseal.com/

http://www.tcpglobal.com/autobodydepot/rustremove.aspx

http://www.loctiteproducts.com/p/s_trmt_extend_spray/directions/Loctite-Extend-Rust-Neutralizer-Spray.ht

http://corrosion-doctors.org/MetalCoatings/rust-converter.htm

http://www.eastwood.com/rust-encapsulator-rust-converter-paint-car-auto-rust-protection

Happy hunting!

I don't think you need to take any acid. Just use enamel paint if you want a top coat.



http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=119599
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=708917
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=463816
http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=204252
http://www.geraldsgto.com/trans-am/use-eastwoods-rust-converter-with-caution/

boojum wrote:

I don't think you need to take any acid. Just use enamel paint if you want a top coat.



http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=119599
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=708917
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=463816
http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=204252
http://www.geraldsgto.com/trans-am/use-eastwoods-rust-converter-with-caution/

Jeez Jim if I don't use this stuff are you gonna send your russian brides to my house to kill me?

Well, I'm leaning towards the SEM in price/ease of use/good results. So I think I may end up using it.



I have a feeling I'm going to finish degreaseing and just cleaning the frame and by next weekend having it taken to a sand blasters. Time to get serious...because I'm running out of time

I'm just saying that's what I would use.

It is much easier to use. It sticks to almost anything, even dusty concrete floors.

There are a few guys on the HAMB forum that used it as a finish body paint.

boojum wrote:

I'm just saying that's what I would use.

It is much easier to use. It sticks to almost anything, even dusty concrete floors.

There are a few guys on the HAMB forum that used it as a finish body paint.

Well then I'll price it out between other products. I think that POR 15 is off the list however.

1984twodoor wrote:

boojum wrote:

I'm just saying that's what I would use.

It is much easier to use. It sticks to almost anything, even dusty concrete floors.

There are a few guys on the HAMB forum that used it as a finish body paint.

Well then I'll price it out between other products. I think that POR 15 is off the list however.

SEM will be the best bang for your buck. I saw a few of those products that MDZ posted, but after seeing how well SEM holds up and after using it and being so satisfied with how well it went on I think you'll be happiest with that. Since you'll have a bare metal frame 2-4 coats of RS will be perfect imo.

Although this has turned into a what's the best paint to use thread, I take the blame for it, it still is focused on what I'm doing right now with the build. And today, I did the same thing, which is perfect to do in rainy weather actually. It also made the rails look AWESOME! Then kind of well, eh crappy because bare metal turns red pretty quickly. Whodathunk!







Here you can see why I'm going to box in the frame...This wont happen anymore. And it wouldn't have if people realized you cant just put the jack/lift anywhere you want to!



look at the twist



The rear sections cleaned up nicely, I knew anything that was black would, but it still surprises me.







Before


After

Good job. Mdz brought up a good point on boxing the frame up a bit. Something that's on my list for the frame off. Is that all from elbow grease? You must be pretty tired.

MASShole9C1 wrote:

Good job. Mdz brought up a good point on boxing the frame up a bit. Something that's on my list for the frame off. Is that all from elbow grease? You must be pretty tired.

He always suggested it to me, even before the accident, but I wasn't going to do it until a good sameritan offered to help out with some steel!

And yes, all elbow grease, marine clean with hot water (Stuff works great!) and an assortment of brushes!

S'lookin' s'awful nice khed!

I'd go nuts if I had to work in the mud like that though, can ya throw some plywood or some big blue tahps down theyah ah somethen khed?

Matt Trakker wrote:

S'lookin' s'awful nice khed!

I'd go nuts if I had to work in the mud like that though, can ya throw some plywood or some big blue tahps down theyah ah somethen khed?

Until you're here helping....no


I have a piece of T-11 I used to build my shed left over I use as a seat when I sit in the mud if that helps!

Matt if you had a problem with the mud before...Just wait until you see the mess I made today!!!



I'm not going to explain too much in this post, other than well, I'm cleaning the frame lol. feast your eyes!

















I had spent a few hours, yes hours, doing just what you've seen above, and I got tired! So when it came time to do the inner C-channels I almost said EF THAT! But I wanted to be able to flip the frame back over either today (tuesday) or tomorrow. So I took MDZ's advice and found a good solvent. You can't buy it in stores...you actually have to buy it at the gas station...and then you must age it for about four years. Then it reaches it's volatile prime cleaning conditions. It comes in a large metal container and looks like ginger ale without the fizz mixed with piss...





I'm happy I saved that fuel injection Boxy B-body tank now! This stuff disolves the undercoating great, but you really have to hit the frame with the degreaser after to clean it up to that luster you see elsewhere.





















The biggest downside...

I have to replace my most useful brush!

GWS grass

sdstick wrote:

GWS grass

I think that particular section of the lawn is going down for a big sleep

I'd be spraying that frame with some kind of oil if it's not going to be painted right away. Then, when it's time, grab a case of brake kleen and get it all off. Otherwise, you will have lovely surface rust to clean off before you paint.

GasTT wrote:

I'd be spraying that frame with some kind of oil if it's not going to be painted right away. Then, when it's time, grab a case of brake kleen and get it all off. Otherwise, you will have lovely surface rust to clean off before you paint.

Already on it. I spray WD-40 over most of it when I'm done and it dries, but after any rain it sort of washes off. I also don't want to go too crazy because it will be getting welding work done soon and those areas will have to be cleaned up regardless, not to mention I want to buzz everything before I lay down the paint.

So I have to deal with surface rust anyway but you're right, the oil makes it LESS surface rust to deal with.

The past two days I haven't done anything note worthy or really picture worthy, but I want to show I'm not a bum sitting on car websites all day....Well I kind of am....oops

Anyway yesterday I did more gas cleaning on the whole shebang and basically just took more undercoating and grime off. Got into some of the harder to reach areas but they all came clean enough to call it a day. It still hasn't been flipped back over though so I'm doing the last section I'm gonna tackle tomorrow then I'll HOPEFULLY flip it after work that night if I can get the help.

And today I got the last body bolt out. Good thing I did it! Because I was tired of not having it essentially ready to pull whenever. So progress is always good to hear about right?

Anyway, that's really all I did the past few days, kinda lame but it's something! Plus the good stuff is coming up in the next few weeks

Like I said, you'll have the fall roundup no problem.

Cadet57 wrote:

Like I said, you'll have the fall roundup no problem.

Right, because the round up is gonna be at my house. We will be swapping a body onto a clean frame.

1984twodoor wrote:

Right, because the round up is gonna be at my house. We will be swapping a body onto a clean frame.

Count me in, I can bring my chair. Maybe I'll bring a camera since yours seems to be broken or missing.

boojum wrote:

1984twodoor wrote:

Right, because the round up is gonna be at my house. We will be swapping a body onto a clean frame.

Count me in, I can bring my chair. Maybe I'll bring a camera since yours seems to be broken or missing.

You can only bring your chair if you pay for my SEM paint. Otherwise you'll be assigned a Massachusetts chair, the tax rate is 7.85% and climbing.

How about a part full can of POR-15? I won't be needing it. It's your's if you want it, assuming it's still good.

I already pay MA taxes, thank you.

boojum wrote:

How about a part full can of POR-15? I won't be needing it. It's your's if you want it, assuming it's still good.

I already pay MA taxes, thank you.

No I think I'm all set on that end...


Did the taxes follow you to NH with all of the MSP cars?

Jim told me to find my camera so I did and the results are more pictures. Shocking! Anyway I did the same old thing, used awful gas to clean the awful undercoating. I have to flip the frame (still) and then have one more section to tackle and after that I just have to get the welding done before I'm all set and ready to paint. This time with SEM I guess

before




After












And because Steve and Matt love what I'm doing with my mud and grass here's an update on that


And it here is how it looks covered in WD40, this shot is for Tim so he knows I'm fighting the surface rust.

Do you supply visitors with hip boots?

Just wondering

sdstick wrote:

Do you supply visitors with hip boots?

Just wondering

I could put my coat down over the puddle if you don't want to dirty up your feet.


Or maybe I should just build a bridge....

Just borrow Billy's boat. A boat for a boat.

I think I am hiring you to clean my frame this winter....

....or to kill my lawn next spring

bfurches wrote:

I think I am hiring you to clean my frame this winter....

....or to kill my lawn next spring

Unless you pay really well I may have to decline. It's definitely a labor of love Plus, it takes four years to properly age the gas...duh.


I would offer a day of help though!

Well today I spent just about the entire day working with the exception of grabbing a late lunch in my buddy's ghetto civic



^No they aren't powder coated white and yes he cleans them every day It's a fun joke car. Anyway, enough with that trash!

I started off by dropping the frame down, not like a cool way, but just dropping it trying to flip it by myself, my mom decided to help, but not wanting to get her hands dirty she didn't do much but worry as I lifted it.







But thankfully Steve showed up and solved that problem, and we got it secured. But he also brought me my presents! He has been working on these pieces for me to make sure they are perfect. They are to repair the rusted and thinning body mount pads and a problem area or two on the frame that needed a patch up. Oh yeah, and the pieces to close off the C-Channel and box the frame for added strength!







LH POS # 2






LH POS # 3




LH POS # 6




LH POS # 7








The RH side is the same story, all of the pieces are AWESOME and came out perfect! Thanks Steve!!!! He's the best!

Those are cool pieces and help BIG TIME, but the next pictures are of his idea to box this box up. a very good idea if you ask me now that I'm not searching all over the world to find a solution! Feast your eyes!!!





full access to the fuel line clips and it will have a cover panel tapped into place too!









As you can see I'm pretty happy with them! The frame just has to be worked to accept them which shouldn't be that big of a deal, it will just take time and effort one day.







Now that all of that is set and ready to go, All I need is the RH piece to be modded and a welder to come and its off to the races! The good part about Steve doing these at his shop is it takes TONS of time out of doing any metal work at all in the back yard. The pieces are ready to go! They need a finesse into place with a hammer, but other than that (an easy task!) it's all set to marry the frame! I'm pumped, it's really a turning point getting this stuff done!

After that I was supposed to change someone's oil so I didn't get too involved other than organizing a few things waiting for them to (not) show up, but at least it wasn't time wasted!

LOL








So for all of you low style guys this is how a box looks literally in the grass...

And then of course, the boring labeling of wires and hoses and getting the firewall ready to be stripped and painted.



That's as exciting as this gets...



BUT back to the top, I need some melted wire to meet that frame soon! Hopefully the weekend after I'm back from vaca (this weekend coming up) I can see the end of the bare metal frame and see the beginning of the painted frame!

Great news Matt. Its definitely coming along! Excellent work Steve! I nominate Bill M. to take care of your welding needs. He's pretty good at it.

MASShole9C1 wrote:

Great news Matt. Its definitely coming along! Excellent work Steve! I nominate Bill M. to take care of your welding needs. He's pretty good at it.

Billy M has been contacted and that's the plan! I'll have to play Crovo and watch him work

Well after work today I was pretty beat and didn't exactly feel like doing anything so after I made myself some grub I was really convinced I should take a shower and relax. So I did! But the problem was I decided the cougar had to get washed, and after that I decided to wash the caprice's fire wall of grease and grime to uncover any surface rust and or rust through that would need to be addressed.

Sadly as it was spur of the moment no before pictures were taken of any areas so there is no comparison to speak of. But...it cleaned it up I promise! I started out with my left over soap and water and a crappy old sponge followed with purple power and a brush to really get the tough stuff off.



The car also got it's first rinse in over a year!













I want to take the whole harness off and really clean everything, wait a dry week and paint it all and coat it to be protected, but I'm afraid of breaking a few things so I'm wary of it. The car is clean enough to leave well enough alone and just hit what's available...but I'm not trying to do this all again! So...who knows. I will definitely take all of the seam sealer and other undercoating stuff off and clean it thoroughly to paint it with the SEM and finally top coat, some areas in white bed liner. I want the cowl to STAY clean once I get it to that point.

Anyway, that's all for now. hopefully more later!

I wouldnt take the seam sealer off unless its all cracked & worthless.
That stuff is pretty tough & it was done when the car was brandy new.
You can clean it & apply more over it if you have any marginal areas.
.....my OPINION of course...

sdstick wrote:

I wouldnt take the seam sealer off unless its all cracked & worthless.
That stuff is pretty tough & it was done when the car was brandy new.
You can clean it & apply more over it if you have any marginal areas.
.....my OPINION of course...

ALL of it is cracked. It comes off when you breath on it. I would have agreed with your opinion if that wasn't the case

However, it's not. I will be using whatever I can find to get as close to the stuff GM used.

When I bonded fiberglass to metal, I used 3M 08115.
It was $40 for a dual cylinder (mix when applying with mixing tip).
Each cylinder was about the size of the small grease cartridges you use for a 1 hand pump grease gun.
The stuff was the nuts....cleans up with laquer thinner, bonded well...very happy (I even wrote a review on amazon)
It IS meant to stick stuff together though...not just seal seams.
The applicator gun was expensive (that suc'd...but I have it now)

What I have but HAVENT used yet is the 3M 08370 seam sealer (gray)
You apply this with a flatter nozzle $27 per tube (about the same size.
Both these things were relatively expensive...but...if your never going to be in there again...you want the right stuff.

Didnt reasearch the heck out of all this...it started with the fiberglass to metal search

sdstick wrote:

When I bonded fiberglass to metal, I used 3M 08115.
It was $40 for a dual cylinder (mix when applying with mixing tip).
Each cylinder was about the size of the small grease cartridges you use for a 1 hand pump grease gun.
The stuff was the nuts....cleans up with laquer thinner, bonded well...very happy (I even wrote a review on amazon)
It IS meant to stick stuff together though...not just seal seams.
The applicator gun was expensive (that suc'd...but I have it now)

What I have but HAVENT used yet is the 3M 08370 seam sealer (gray)
You apply this with a flatter nozzle $27 per tube (about the same size.
Both these things were relatively expensive...but...if your never going to be in there again...you want the right stuff.

Didnt reasearch the heck out of all this...it started with the fiberglass to metal search

Exactly! I think I'll end up going with that, if not I'll ask around body shops to see what they use. I have to ask them anyway to see if it's better to paint then seam seal or just seam seal then paint! I'll also be using this on the floor right at the cowl where it has all cracked over the years.




Also, today was lame, I have stuff to do (that requires clean clothes) so I only worked on the frame for an hour. BUT all of the undercoating is off! The last of it! Good hour of work in my booK!

sdstick wrote:

When I bonded fiberglass to metal, I used 3M 08115.
It was $40 for a dual cylinder (mix when applying with mixing tip).
Each cylinder was about the size of the small grease cartridges you use for a 1 hand pump grease gun.
The stuff was the nuts....

He speaks the absolute truth! We use this stuff at work all the time. I have a few of the aplicator guns for the dual cylinder setups if you need to borrow one.

Today was lame 'cause you didn't take any pictures!

Where's my fix?

If it was my car I'd use SEM, $8 seam sealer, and then SEM again.

bfurches wrote:

sdstick wrote:

When I bonded fiberglass to metal, I used 3M 08115.
It was $40 for a dual cylinder (mix when applying with mixing tip).
Each cylinder was about the size of the small grease cartridges you use for a 1 hand pump grease gun.
The stuff was the nuts....

He speaks the absolute truth! We use this stuff at work all the time. I have a few of the aplicator guns for the dual cylinder setups if you need to borrow one.

I may have to do that Because I'll probably only use it this one time (for now) and the money tree out back died from all of the gas I used to clean the frame

boojum wrote:

Today was lame 'cause you didn't take any pictures!

Where's my fix?

If it was my car I'd use SEM, $8 seam sealer, and then SEM again.

I'm sorry Jim, I can steal some more of my buddy's pictures of his civic if you want

Well I'm going away this weekend so no updates will come from here, but I don't want Jim to have withdrawals all weekend so I'll put up some pics!

I gave the frame a fresh coat of oil before I left just to be sure it stays at it's current level of surface rust. Exciting I know...


But I did pull the rest of the seats out and stashed them into my bedroom under old blankets to keep the cats off of them! and took some pictures of the interior, I hope someone other than me cares











These are cool! The very molested red car didn't have them so I was confused, but they are nice and are in great shape!







Not sure what the S means but here is a pic!



CLEAN wheel houses! But the seam sealer is all cracked up so it'll be replaced with that other stuff and of course, SEM'd. This didn't even exist on my other car!





And that's it!

Much more will happen after I get back. It has to! So keep watching guys! Talk to you all soon!

The interior is in great shape huh? What's all the black stuff?

I like the carpet. Do you have any in red? How much do you want?

Hopefully Al won't see you using those wheel well sound deadeners. He has a thing against "fat" (heavy) cars.

Thanks for the photos of the funky glue and black stuff, I saved copies to my hard drive.

MASShole9C1 wrote:

The interior is in great shape huh? What's all the black stuff?

Yes it is, with the exception of the two rear side panels, they have slight scratches from a dog that used to ride around in the back. That was me guessing what caused it but the dog hair under the seat confirmed it.

The black stuff.....No clue! Probably seam sealer drippings they just let fly around.

boojum wrote:

I like the carpet. Do you have any in red? How much do you want?

Hopefully Al won't see you using those wheel well sound deadeners. He has a thing against "fat" (heavy) cars.

Thanks for the photos of the funky glue and black stuff, I saved copies to my hard drive.

I don't have any carpet in red actually. I'm sorry. And you'll be even more upset when I tell you I didn't take any pics today while I was working on it!

Speaking of that...

Today I went out and tried to straighten the bent bottom of the frame rail. I would have worked on both sides but I got sweaty, tired, and fed up with the heat so I lost patience...shit happens...

I got a good bit of the RH rail straightened back down with the two 2x4's though. It needs a little bit more before the plate can be attached to box it in. By this weekend both sides will be brought down closer to where they should be and from there I hope to figure out a way to get the rest of it (close to) perfect.

Interesting on the black stuff. It's silly to think that their attitude was probably " no ones going to see it ".

Good update on the rails. They looked pretty wavy. That LDM l99 was like that from dumbasses jacking it up in the wrong place.

The heat is killer. I feel your pain. I try to work early morning and then aroun 230/300 to 530/600 when it's cooler again.

Get some pice up! Before and afters of the frame would be nice to see. Well, you can just re post the before pic I guess.