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 The Official 1987 Two Door Body Off RE-build Thread!

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bfurches



Posts : 1061
Join date : 2010-04-20
Age : 29
Location : Springfield, MA

PostSubject: Re: The Official 1987 Two Door Body Off RE-build Thread!    Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:55 pm

YO!

Do you want my old long tubes for your motor?

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1984twodoor



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Location : Wilmington/Wakefield/Andover

PostSubject: Re: The Official 1987 Two Door Body Off RE-build Thread!    Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:26 am

bfurches wrote:
YO!

Do you want my old long tubes for your motor?


Cool Hey now! That'll save me some cash for now! I'll take em, You've got PM Arrow
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1984twodoor



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PostSubject: Re: The Official 1987 Two Door Body Off RE-build Thread!    Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:41 am

Ok, so as much as I like Brandon...He's hogging the boxy section! Razz So Today I tried to fix that.

Well, actually the past few days I've been fixing that. I've been trying out my POR15 paint on some of the suspension components. I like what I'm seeing! So far the plan is to use up the POR, or as much as it takes on the frame and once I run out, I'll probably switch over to the SEM rust shield for the underbody, but only if I need it. I'd like to do half and half as a comparison, but I'm not spending more $ if I dont have to!

Anyway a few days ago I started to strip my lower control arms, Impala SS sway bars, and the transmission cross-member. The first thing I had to do was strip off the flaky crusty crap from everything. And sway bars are THE SUCKIEST to do that too...






after that's done you use the Marine Clean degreaser. I'm following their instructions and system just to make sure the stuff sticks. It does a pretty good job of it on the crsuty already rusted sections, but luckily some of what i'm dealing with is surprisingly clean. So I used their prep product Prep & Ready on that just to give it the proper base after cleaning.









Next up is well, obviously that paint. Don't get it on your skin... Surprised









So after you've done your two light coats of POR which takes about 3 hours in between coats you can use a top coat. However, because I was time restricted and either outdoors or in a small space, it took me three days to get to that point, which was today! I had a very precise system of a rope holding up my parts...which sagged like tatas on the old country.










And now don't judge this is a test color for the sway bars, I can always change it if I hate it when they get mounted. But seeing as the car is white with blue interior and the floor is going to be top coated white (most likely) I wanted something to contrast it. Then again when it's all said and done, I can always go back and change it to gun metal or the obvious choice of some red or black. But I wanted to try blue...I'll shut up now.







It dried darker, if I like it the springs and calipers will be the same metallic blue all four of each Wink

ANYWAY! So there is that! I like the POR and rustoleum is (so far so good) a good top coat candidate for it. We'll see when it's put to the test when it sees all of that water! Ya know...when I wash the car every Sunday Laughing

But wait, You may be asking yourself..."Self, what the hell did this loser do while waiting in between coats? Just sit there and watch the paint dry?" Nope, I did something else productive.

I finally got this heavy B$&%H out of the white car!



and no trans lowering would be complete without the blood flowing out!

But this time I'm not putting sand down, because I walked in the last time it happened and it smelt like shit...A neighborhood cat took a shit in my tent....yeah....

Moving on...I put the tranny in the trunk of the cougar and backed it over to the shed, notice how the engine is still on that tire in the tent? Rolling Eyes

But this view makes me have more motivation to finish the frame and get to cleaning up this body a bit more. I can't wait!





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bfurches



Posts : 1061
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Age : 29
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PostSubject: Re: The Official 1987 Two Door Body Off RE-build Thread!    Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:54 pm

Very nice progress.

I have never had any experience with the POR, but it sure looks like it lays down good.

That blue isnt too bad. Curious to see what it looks like mounted to the chassis.
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Pooge



Posts : 1698
Join date : 2009-03-24

PostSubject: Re: The Official 1987 Two Door Body Off RE-build Thread!    Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:41 pm

Looks like some good progress. Keep it up!

_________________
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Matt Trakker



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PostSubject: Re: The Official 1987 Two Door Body Off RE-build Thread!    Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:03 pm

LOL @ the "smelt like shit..." story, that happened in my tent too, in addition to damned cats walking up and over my car for no reason...Laughing

Oh, and thanks for copying my blue sway bars down to the exact color after making fun of me for doing it at the meet when you guys saw them in the trunk! Laughing
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MASShole9C1



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Join date : 2009-12-16

PostSubject: Re: The Official 1987 Two Door Body Off RE-build Thread!    Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:39 pm

Keep up the good work! I ordered some POR15. Should be here soon. Im sure my UPS guy is tired of seeing me by now lol!
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Cadet57



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Location : Chicopee, MA

PostSubject: Re: The Official 1987 Two Door Body Off RE-build Thread!    Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:42 pm

MASShole9C1 wrote:
Keep up the good work! I ordered some POR15. Should be here soon. Im sure my UPS guy is tired of seeing me by now lol!

Over the winter my FedEx guy asked if I was a Rockauto warehouse. Laughing


Looking good Matt. You should have this done by the fall roundup. Arrow
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1984twodoor



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Age : 23
Location : Wilmington/Wakefield/Andover

PostSubject: Re: The Official 1987 Two Door Body Off RE-build Thread!    Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:03 pm

Matt Trakker wrote:
LOL @ the "smelt like shit..." story, that happened in my tent too, in addition to damned cats walking up and over my car for no reason...Laughing

Oh, and thanks for copying my blue sway bars down to the exact color after making fun of me for doing it at the meet when you guys saw them in the trunk! Laughing

LOL! I did????!? That I don't remember! As one friend said to me "With this one can o spray paint, you can take yo ride from ordinary to extraordinary" <-- you're best sarcastic vtech voice imaginable.

Well, did you keep that color??? Laughing

Cadet57 wrote:
MASShole9C1 wrote:
Keep up the good work! I ordered some POR15. Should be here soon. Im sure my UPS guy is tired of seeing me by now lol!

Over the winter my FedEx guy asked if I was a Rockauto warehouse. Laughing


Looking good Matt. You should have this done by the fall roundup. Arrow

Yeah on a trailer maybe Razz
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1984twodoor



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PostSubject: Re: The Official 1987 Two Door Body Off RE-build Thread!    Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:11 am

Well I did some more painting and all of that today, it took from 10 when I got all of my supplies and stuff situated and actually started working until 7:30 tonight when I finished the second coat. Top coat will come probably Thursday or Friday to give it the 48 hours, but I'll have to check on the can for that.

Anyway, there is obviously not enough time in the damn day to do the whole frame in one shot, not in a million years! So I'm doing this piece by piece all of the top and then it will be spun around to have the bottom sections done. A rotisserie would be nice, but being a backyard build we don't need no stinking rotisserie!

So anyway the first parts to be done were the frame horns up to the alligator heads as I like to call them, don't ask why, I just do lol, where the upper A-arms bolt to. I stopped right after that as best I could and then when I top coat it I will make a tape line and avoid the improperly prepped sections to avoid any BS when I eventually do that area the right way.

So here goes, first I had the crusty and half still undercoated horns and "K-member" So I took off as much of the undercoating as I oculd with the drill and wire wheel to keep everything else fairly clean. After this I switched to a harbor Freight rust stripping wheel on the grinder and burned through two of them to get to this.









Next the cupped and knotted wire wheel on the grinder was put to work to get it ready for the Marine Clean degreaser.



So then came the Marine Clean which worked it's magic with a little agitation from a rough bristle brush and a few good applications to make sure it was working. Then I pressure washed it all off as it is supposed to be thoroughly rinsed off and I wanted to push it through the inside of the rails also. This is also when the car decided to fall off the jack stands. I Mark Ross'd it back on in the front so that it could drain nicely out. after I rinsed it off again with the cleaner. And left it like that for the Prep & Ready.





To those of you who haven't used it, this is the Prep & Ready when dry. It leaves a base coating of Zinc Phosphate which according to the company is the absolute best base for the POR-15 especially when applied to bare smooth metal as the paint is developed for rough and pitted rusty metal.



And of course this needs no introduction



I used a roller as it really spread much nicer than if I brushed the whole thing, though I did get a few more fish eyes than I had noticed previously. I hope they will be covered with the top coat of primer and you guessed it, black gloss rustoleum.



And obviously the nooks and crannies were hit with a brush, I'm using some wooster amber fong china bristle (made in the USA) brushes for this as they seemed to hold up well in the "test" I did for myself. They shed the bristles the least from the rest of the ones I tried. The dollar store ones were the worst, I was really hoping they would be the best though Laughing This info is for anyone who cares I guess.

That's the update for now, I might start on a different section tomorrow but I might not. We'll see. Maybe I'll actually go to work instead silent


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Matt Trakker



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PostSubject: Re: The Official 1987 Two Door Body Off RE-build Thread!    Wed Aug 08, 2012 3:49 pm

Looks good!
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MASShole9C1



Posts : 4211
Join date : 2009-12-16

PostSubject: Re: The Official 1987 Two Door Body Off RE-build Thread!    Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:31 pm

Matt, you suck! Lol. This makes me want to unbolt the whole shebang, and roll the frame out. I already painted most of the front with rustoleum and I'll be damned if I'm gonna unbolt all of it again to strip it, then paint with a brush. Keep up the good work! Looks good!
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1984twodoor



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PostSubject: Re: The Official 1987 Two Door Body Off RE-build Thread!    Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:02 pm

Matt Trakker wrote:
Looks good!

Thanks! Very Happy I was hoping for that reaction instead of "looks like hell"

MASShole9C1 wrote:
Matt, you suck! Lol. This makes me want to unbolt the whole shebang, and roll the frame out. I already painted most of the front with rustoleum and I'll be damned if I'm gonna unbolt all of it again to strip it, then paint with a brush. Keep up the good work! Looks good!

Sorry Laughing But if you did happen to do that you would be happy! Then again, you could probably wait for a LONG time seeing as it's still Cali fresh under there! Make it a father son project in a garage Arrow
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toomanytoyz
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PostSubject: Re: The Official 1987 Two Door Body Off RE-build Thread!    Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:16 pm

Wow. That looks great! Way more work than I'd like to undertake though. Wow.

And seriously, I lol'd at the "Rock Auto Warehouse" comment... Very Happy

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bfurches



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Location : Springfield, MA

PostSubject: Re: The Official 1987 Two Door Body Off RE-build Thread!    Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:56 pm

You get that whole frame done and thats going to look amazing. I can't believe I didnt do this while I was changing the mounts!
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1984twodoor



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PostSubject: Re: The Official 1987 Two Door Body Off RE-build Thread!    Thu Aug 09, 2012 12:30 am

toomanytoyz wrote:
Wow. That looks great! Way more work than I'd like to undertake though. Wow.

And seriously, I lol'd at the "Rock Auto Warehouse" comment... Very Happy

Thanks Crocodile! It really isn't that bad...after you've been in an accident. I wouldn't have jumped into this in a million years if I hadn't been hit. And believe me, this summer was going to be exhaust and putting an engine on a schwinn sting ray OCC style bike I've had for years. <- still gonna do that ... eventually!

bfurches wrote:
You get that whole frame done and thats going to look amazing. I can't believe I didnt do this while I was changing the mounts!

Hey you have a garage and winter ahead of you Arrow
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mikiehews



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PostSubject: Re: The Official 1987 Two Door Body Off RE-build Thread!    Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:54 pm

wow dude! I'm impressed. This thread gets better and better. You seem to be putting you heart and soul into this.
I will salute my next drink (or two) to you. Rock on!
Gives hope to someone like me who only wishes I had more time (and money) to spend on their B69 or in your case a B47.
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1984twodoor



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PostSubject: Re: The Official 1987 Two Door Body Off RE-build Thread!    Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:34 am

mikiehews wrote:
wow dude! I'm impressed. This thread gets better and better. You seem to be putting you heart and soul into this.
I will salute my next drink (or two) to you. Rock on!
Gives hope to someone like me who only wishes I had more time (and money) to spend on their B69 or in your case a B47.

Thanks! Very Happy Believe me I'm putting plenty of boold sweat and tears into it, sadly it keeps geting in the paint and messing up the finish! Mad

Hey just think someday you can have a nice purple frame with silver accents Cool Gotta have that purpala matching!

I'm hoping that once I'm "done" with this more club members will jump in on it and the New England club can have the cleanest cars in the nation!
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MASShole9C1



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PostSubject: Re: The Official 1987 Two Door Body Off RE-build Thread!    Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:32 am

Second to mine lol lol!
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1984twodoor



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PostSubject: Re: The Official 1987 Two Door Body Off RE-build Thread!    Fri Aug 10, 2012 9:08 am

MASShole9C1 wrote:
Second to mine lol lol!

Cali Imports don't count! Razz
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Matt Trakker



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PostSubject: Re: The Official 1987 Two Door Body Off RE-build Thread!    Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:27 am

Do 40 year old unrestored western MA cars count then? lol

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M.ROSS



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PostSubject: Coating inside the frame   Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:41 pm

My only regret when doing my frame was not doing more to coat the INSIDE of the frame.
I used a small chimney brush on a power drill to get the loose rust off and sprayed rusty metal primer and a topcoat into all the holes i could get to.
If i could do it over again i would get some kind of sprayer with a long hose and apply something in the fully boxed sections of frame.
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No Moa



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PostSubject: Re: The Official 1987 Two Door Body Off RE-build Thread!    Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:11 pm

M.ROSS wrote:
My only regret when doing my frame was not doing more to coat the INSIDE of the frame.
I used a small chimney brush on a power drill to get the loose rust off and sprayed rusty metal primer and a topcoat into all the holes i could get to.
If i could do it over again i would get some kind of sprayer with a long hose and apply something in the fully boxed sections of frame.

Just like i told ya we should have done. Very Happy

Oh ya, not to be a douch, but "K member" is a dodge/chysler thing. We GM losa's call that there an H memba.! lol
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1984twodoor



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PostSubject: Re: The Official 1987 Two Door Body Off RE-build Thread!    Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:21 pm

Matt Trakker wrote:
Do 40 year old unrestored western MA cars count then? lol

Yes, the more the merrier!


M.ROSS wrote:
My only regret when doing my frame was not doing more to coat the INSIDE of the frame.
I used a small chimney brush on a power drill to get the loose rust off and sprayed rusty metal primer and a topcoat into all the holes i could get to.
If i could do it over again i would get some kind of sprayer with a long hose and apply something in the fully boxed sections of frame.

No Moa wrote:
M.ROSS wrote:
My only regret when doing my frame was not doing more to coat the INSIDE of the frame.
I used a small chimney brush on a power drill to get the loose rust off and sprayed rusty metal primer and a topcoat into all the holes i could get to.
If i could do it over again i would get some kind of sprayer with a long hose and apply something in the fully boxed sections of frame.

Just like i told ya we should have done. Very Happy

Oh ya, not to be a douch, but "K member" is a dodge/chysler thing. We GM losa's call that there an H memba.! lol

Well actually I've updated me car with the 440 Super commando HEMI supercharger cop-spec MOPAR K-Member to handle the power from my two leaf blower power adders and five nitrous bottles and cop chip...so yeah Razz

On a serious note, Mark and Glenn, I was thinking about once I'm done with the whole frame going over the hard to reach areas with some of the spray rust removers, maybe the duplicolor product, and top coating it as best I can. Then hitting it with some undercoating just to be sure. Oh and once the car's back together and I have all of my pretty pictures taken of the underside...CHAIN SAW OIL! What a Face
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MASShole9C1



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PostSubject: Re: The Official 1987 Two Door Body Off RE-build Thread!    Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:23 pm

You should come over and unbolt mine for me since you are so good at it now lol! BTW, it'll be ALOT easier...No rust! Razz
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boojum



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PostSubject: Re: The Official 1987 Two Door Body Off RE-build Thread!    Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:59 pm

If that was my car I'd use toilet bowl wax gaskets inside the frame.

Just wait 'itl the point where you use gold plated tools on your car like Mark. Smile
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1984twodoor



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PostSubject: Re: The Official 1987 Two Door Body Off RE-build Thread!    Fri Aug 10, 2012 9:51 pm

MASShole9C1 wrote:
You should come over and unbolt mine for me since you are so good at it now lol! BTW, it'll be ALOT easier...No rust! Razz

LOL I didn't plan on starting a resto business at all ya know! But if you want to do it I'll come by and help out! Smile The 87 believe it or not gave me little to no trouble at all, only three bolts were a bitch. The 84 however...all of the bolts broke when I turned the ratchet once! Shocked

boojum wrote:
If that was my car I'd use toilet bowl wax gaskets inside the frame.

Just wait 'itl the point where you use gold plated tools on your car like Mark. Smile

Lol thanks for the link Jim, I honestly never would have thought about using the wax rings. It seems of you could get it melted just enough to coat it and then it could solidify as a wax coating it would be the best undercoating possible. hmmm. I'll have to think about a few things I guess.
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boojum



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PostSubject: Re: The Official 1987 Two Door Body Off RE-build Thread!    Fri Aug 10, 2012 9:55 pm

1984twodoor wrote:


Lol thanks for the link Jim, I honestly never would have thought about using the wax rings. It seems of you could get it melted just enough to coat it and then it could solidify as a wax coating it would be the best undercoating possible. hmmm. I'll have to think about a few things I guess.

That's what the Varsol is for.
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1984twodoor



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PostSubject: Re: The Official 1987 Two Door Body Off RE-build Thread!    Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:14 am

boojum wrote:
1984twodoor wrote:


Lol thanks for the link Jim, I honestly never would have thought about using the wax rings. It seems of you could get it melted just enough to coat it and then it could solidify as a wax coating it would be the best undercoating possible. hmmm. I'll have to think about a few things I guess.

That's what the Varsol is for.

Right... I was er... testing you! silent
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1984twodoor



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PostSubject: Re: The Official 1987 Two Door Body Off RE-build Thread!    Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:17 pm

Well the past few days I did a few things including top coating what I had previously POR'd and making some progress is removal of the undercoating that plagues the frame yet saved it from rotting into pieces over the years. Clean metal underneath it but it takes some elbow grease to remove and it makes you pretty tired of working on it pretty quickly. So this is a short and sweet post of pictures of what I've been doing since the last time I posted pictures of...what I've been doing.

primer






coat of this








Not using these...well I don't think so, going with 12 inch front brakes so these 11 inch backing plates aren't needed...for this boxy Wink I'm sure they'll come into service in the future.


And now what I did today, for hours, which I might not do again silent It might be worth it time wise to just wait until I grind the metal clean to get this stuff off. Oh well I'm doing some painting tomorrow (plan to) and we'll see what I decide then.















It gets clean, but it takes time and effort. I might just keep doing this tomorrow, I might just say screw it and dirty a wire wheel or two. It has to be cleaned up anyway when I paint so I probably will just go the route of grinding.
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Matt Trakker



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PostSubject: Re: The Official 1987 Two Door Body Off RE-build Thread!    Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:56 pm

Huh, that was just the black wax on there? Those frame rails cleaned up pretty freakin' nice, I'm surprised considering the body that was bolted to them before...
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1984twodoor



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PostSubject: Re: The Official 1987 Two Door Body Off RE-build Thread!    Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:35 am

Matt Trakker wrote:
Huh, that was just the black wax on there? Those frame rails cleaned up pretty freakin' nice, I'm surprised considering the body that was bolted to them before...

You're telling me! LOL! Shocked

Anyway, yes that is just the black waxy oily 28 years old nasty! It's inside the rails in the boxed sections too...not sure how to attack that yet lol. After looking at the pics again I might go back to the scrub method Very Happy they're clean when you do that lol. It takes time but the whole thing does, and it doesn't sling it in my face like the grinder does pirat
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1984twodoor



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PostSubject: Re: The Official 1987 Two Door Body Off RE-build Thread!    Tue Aug 14, 2012 5:27 pm

Well...

I scrubbed more! Smile And the top portions of the frame are done, in about an hour the reinforcements will come and help flip the frame upside down and I can get to gettin on the bottom half tomorrow! After I was done today I gave it a quick cover of WD-40 just to help it preserve that clean metal a little bit longer. This is the first time it's been completely bare since it left Canada! affraid

So here's a few pics....and by a few I mean a lot...Like always in this thread! But hey it seems like you guys like it! cheers

If you've wanted to do this yourself....here are the tools you want. And Marine Clean and a hose, pressure washer helps get the first layer of crud off!



This first thing I did was pick up right where I left off, literally this is the spot where I gave up last night!



It looks a lot better now! So does this, the only still scrubbable section on the RH rear outer frame rail



The inner on that section proved easier to clean





The tops of the spring perches came out nicely, this is the only spot that had the wax left on it!





opposite inner side



the outter LH side before



and after





then we got closer to the horns, getting the final top sides before flipping









Then of course, the nastiness that is inside the C-Channels drew me in...



But I cleaned it up a bit before I took pics! Then I said screw the upper part I'll get it when it becomes the lower part tomorrow.









Then there is that pesky panel Most B owners never see...ever! Unless they get into a car and do brake lines, fuel lines, or shocks. With the body off, you see it a lot better.













Well there you have it.... That's what I did all day! God I hate the fact people want a build thread on the big board.... Too many pics!
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MASShole9C1



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PostSubject: Re: The Official 1987 Two Door Body Off RE-build Thread!    Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:30 pm

As always Matt, keep up the good work. Marine clean FTW! I'm gonna place another order so I can finish up my door sills, jambs, etc. Por15 is easy to use, but isn't easy to wash off lol. Thanks for the motivation to try out the starter kit ( I got 2)
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toomanytoyz
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PostSubject: Re: The Official 1987 Two Door Body Off RE-build Thread!    Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:59 pm

Still wow.

And still glad I'm not doing that.

Smile

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1984twodoor



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PostSubject: Re: The Official 1987 Two Door Body Off RE-build Thread!    Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:19 am

MASShole9C1 wrote:
As always Matt, keep up the good work. Marine clean FTW! I'm gonna place another order so I can finish up my door sills, jambs, etc. Por15 is easy to use, but isn't easy to wash off lol. Thanks for the motivation to try out the starter kit ( I got 2)

It just wears off...lol. Don't bother scrubbing you'll just break the skin! The starter kit is cool...but it won't last too long once you get the ball rolling! bounce

toomanytoyz wrote:
Still wow.

And still glad I'm not doing that.

Smile

Consider yourself lucky that you don't live close or you would have gotten the call to help lift it up and flip it over! The secret is, call your non-car friends and don't tell them what you're doing until that all show up Arrow

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1984twodoor



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PostSubject: Re: The Official 1987 Two Door Body Off RE-build Thread!    Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:26 pm

Well, I'm not gonna lie I got lazy today. I only did a little bit of this stuff for an hour. The rain when I woke up turned me off from it then the fact that my rustoleum top coat was coming off by scratching it with my fingernail made me lose all interest in working on the frame today. Way it goes I guess Rolling Eyes

So I'll be ordering some of the POR-15 top coat in the next two weeks or so it looks like, I mean, it can't hurt to follow the directions and keep the paint from the same company. And I'll be waiting to paint until I have perfect conditions meaning no humidity (the best I can get at least) and I'll do one section to test it. Hopefully all will workout well.


[img][/img]

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MASShole9C1



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PostSubject: Re: The Official 1987 Two Door Body Off RE-build Thread!    Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:44 pm

That sucks about the paint scratching off easy. How long did it " cure" for? I've had zero issues with the rustoleum products, but they are stand alone applied. I haven't mixed companies, but now I won't.
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Matt Trakker



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PostSubject: Re: The Official 1987 Two Door Body Off RE-build Thread!    Wed Aug 15, 2012 3:06 pm

Yeah, how dry was that? I in the second pic of it scratching off, I can see some wrinkling in the paint which usually means it was pretty thickly applied or reacted with what was underneath. Was the primer also Rustoleum?

A few weeks ago I helped a friend clean up a truck he was selling by painting the crappy steel wheels gloss black. I spray bombed them with Rustoleum and they came out PISSAH. The next day I was helping again, and noticed you could just barely see that since I'd painted the wheels with them on the truck, that there were a couple very small areas on the bottom side of the wheels/lugs where the paint was thin. I went to touch them up with some other kind of black gloss paint he had there, and it RUINED the two wheels I hit with it.
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1984twodoor



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PostSubject: Re: The Official 1987 Two Door Body Off RE-build Thread!    Wed Aug 15, 2012 3:53 pm

MASShole9C1 wrote:
That sucks about the paint scratching off easy. How long did it " cure" for? I've had zero issues with the rustoleum products, but they are stand alone applied. I haven't mixed companies, but now I won't.

It's weird I've always had good luck with their products. POR cured for over 48 hours, the primer was applied then the HP rust enamel was put on within the hour, then that coat dried for two more days. I don't get it lol. It must be humidity issues.

Matt Trakker wrote:
Yeah, how dry was that? I in the second pic of it scratching off, I can see some wrinkling in the paint which usually means it was pretty thickly applied or reacted with what was underneath. Was the primer also Rustoleum?

A few weeks ago I helped a friend clean up a truck he was selling by painting the crappy steel wheels gloss black. I spray bombed them with Rustoleum and they came out PISSAH. The next day I was helping again, and noticed you could just barely see that since I'd painted the wheels with them on the truck, that there were a couple very small areas on the bottom side of the wheels/lugs where the paint was thin. I went to touch them up with some other kind of black gloss paint he had there, and it RUINED the two wheels I hit with it.

What do you mean how dry? How dry was it today? Almost a week it's been on there...

I think it might have to do with being too thick, I'll see about getting less paint on per coat. (this was only two coats btw) All of the top coats were rustoleum products. Clean metal primer and then high performance enamel. Not sure if I'll use it again in conjunction with the POR. The A-arms got two coats of POR, a coat of clean metal primer(spray) and two coats of Stops Rust black spray paint. They came out nice and still Look great!

I want to say that it has something to do with the humidity levels differing between when I did the A-arms (it was dryer) and the frame horns (humidity was SUPPOSEDLY under 75% according to the interents....so who knows Rolling Eyes ) either way I want to try the POR top coat just to be sure it'll hold up. It may seem like overkill, but if you want to go through this process twice then by all means tell me it's overkill study but then try it out for yourself!
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sdstick



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PostSubject: Re: The Official 1987 Two Door Body Off RE-build Thread!    Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:20 pm

1984twodoor wrote:
....I think it might have to do with being too thick.................

Dont be so hard on yourself....your learning.... silent Wink Laughing

Not sure why your mixing products.
It's just the "non" POR stuff thats flaking right?
You could always use a POR clear if you want a show finish.

Didnt read everything tho so maybe you already know that.
The welding will mess up some of it anyway.

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96BBB 28K 3.42 Bolt-ons
95BBB 100K 3.73 383 New DD...already broke fixt the 4L60E twice
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bfurches



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PostSubject: Re: The Official 1987 Two Door Body Off RE-build Thread!    Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:59 pm

Several guys out here have gone your course of action with the POR15 stuff (by your course of action, I am referring to cleaning the frame down to the bare metal before application), and all had similar results to what you are dealing with now. I really think that POR stuff is designed to be used exactly like the title says....right on top of rust. I am guessing once the frame is cleaned, maybe its not porous enough for the paint to adhere? I am really not sure?

I have always kept it simple and stuck to the Rustoleum primer/ paint combo with very good luck. I sometimes thin it and spray it through the gun with a little extra hardener (but man does that shit smell bad coming out of the gun!), but I have also had good luck with the roller/ brush combo and touching up hard to reach areas with the rattle can....


You want my honest opinion?

...(i dont care....your getting it anyways Wink lol)....

I would find the local sand-blaster and powdercoater and let them have at it....seeing how you have already gone this far! (plus...it will coat the INSIDE of the frame as well!)
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1984twodoor



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PostSubject: Re: The Official 1987 Two Door Body Off RE-build Thread!    Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:31 pm

bfurches wrote:
Several guys out here have gone your course of action with the POR15 stuff (by your course of action, I am referring to cleaning the frame down to the bare metal before application), and all had similar results to what you are dealing with now. I really think that POR stuff is designed to be used exactly like the title says....right on top of rust. I am guessing once the frame is cleaned, maybe its not porous enough for the paint to adhere? I am really not sure?

I have always kept it simple and stuck to the Rustoleum primer/ paint combo with very good luck. I sometimes thin it and spray it through the gun with a little extra hardener (but man does that shit smell bad coming out of the gun!), but I have also had good luck with the roller/ brush combo and touching up hard to reach areas with the rattle can....


You want my honest opinion?

...(i dont care....your getting it anyways Wink lol)....

I would find the local sand-blaster and powdercoater and let them have at it....seeing how you have already gone this far! (plus...it will coat the INSIDE of the frame as well!)

The POR 15 is sticking like crazy on the bare metal that I've prepped with their products while following their directions. As I said above their prep products coat bare metal with zinc phosphate which helps to make the POR adhere to bare metal just like it adheres to as they say metal with "tooth" the rusty stuff.

I could do that whole deal with the sand blaster and all of that, however, I'm running out of money with every idea I have. And I to be honest (as crazy as it may sound) prefer the grinding as it does get the blackness out of the pits more effectively than any of the sandblasted pieces I've seen in person. As far as inside of the frame coating goes...well, I'll probably have it re-undercoated as it was done at the factory once I get my pictures of my pretty and clean frame under the pretty and clean body. And if that waxy shyte can stand up to 25+ New England winters then I'm sure it will stand up to countless more years of seasonal driving and being locked away until the salt is all gone.
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95brmw



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PostSubject: Re: The Official 1987 Two Door Body Off RE-build Thread!    Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:47 pm

Don't let the peeling paint hold you back, its a small road block in this huge job. This project is coming out great, I'm a little motivated to do this to my 75 Impala Very Happy
Keep it up!
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1984twodoor



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PostSubject: Re: The Official 1987 Two Door Body Off RE-build Thread!    Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:39 pm

95brmw wrote:
Don't let the peeling paint hold you back, its a small road block in this huge job. This project is coming out great, I'm a little motivated to do this to my 75 Impala Very Happy
Keep it up!

It's just a road block to make me re-think using the POR. Especially after this



Then again I was using a pressure washer but I believe I'm on the hunt for a different paint. If I had a crusty frame, I'd just bathe it in the stuff. Not sure what to do at this point. Suggestion box is open for other products guys!
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sdstick



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PostSubject: Re: The Official 1987 Two Door Body Off RE-build Thread!    Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:53 pm

Duplicolor self etching primer then any gloss black enamel

OR

I could mix you up some air dry MIL Spec primer (phosphate or red oxide) & navy gray Surprised
(You'd need a spray gun then)

_________________
Steve


96BBB 28K 3.42 Bolt-ons
95BBB 100K 3.73 383 New DD...already broke fixt the 4L60E twice
95 Black WB4 Hole...ee...grail
96 Black WB4 No holes in this
95BBB 189K 3.08 Old DD Stolen...by Matt. Cool
Whine..eee...Silver LS6
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1984twodoor



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PostSubject: Re: The Official 1987 Two Door Body Off RE-build Thread!    Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:55 pm

sdstick wrote:
Duplicolor self etching primer then any gloss black enamel

OR

I could mix you up some air dry MIL Spec primer (phosphate or red oxide) & navy gray Surprised
(You'd need a spray gun then)

Navy Gray worked for another member's white boxy Laughing

Who knows Steve, I might have to take you up on that. I'm just bouncing ideas around while waiting to hear back from others on what to do/use.
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Machine-De-Zine



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PostSubject: Re: The Official 1987 Two Door Body Off RE-build Thread!    Thu Aug 16, 2012 2:07 pm

This thread is giving me flashbacks.

Some observations/questions:
I see you have bad rust thinning at the body mount pads.
Are you still planning on repairing those locations with new 1.5" hole plates welded in?
Just say yes. - - But why are you painting the chassis first? - And, , ,
This is DEFINITELY the time to reinforce your "C"channels and fortify how they connect to the front & rear box sections.
There are a few other locations that would greatly benefit from some small strategically placed gussets welded in place.

On cleaning INSIDE the box sections:
Get a steel bristle chimney sweep brush on a slow torquey hand drill.
Douse the brush (and soak the inside of the box) with diesel oil, engine-brite, gas, MEK, or anything to cut the greasy oily mess, but please work safely!
I made a trough (a slanted "gutter" draining into a bucket) to catch all the spray and drippings to first re-use, and then to dispose of the nasty solvents.

On painting the frame.
Had my chassis professionally blasted by a firm that mostly does cement trucks and industrial tanks, best $125 I ever spent, maybe.
He thought he was doing me a favor by following up with spraying the entire frame.
He used some type of yellow chromate, red lead or phosphate "bridge primer" with out asking me.
My original plan was to use Por-15 directly on the bare steel frame, after doing all my welding.
Had to use a respirator to grind, sand and weld the frame due to the deadly poisonous lead component in the primer.

Other points you may already know:
The properly cured surface of Por-15 is harder than the hinges of hell!
It is therefore no easy task to sand, although if it is not properly adhered to the chassis, it can be peeled off in sheets.
I found some coarse (80 grit) carborundum cloth-back sandpaper to prep the grey Por-15 surface for "rattle-can" urethane bed liner in black.
The whole under belly of the car was also sanded, degreased, Por-15ed in grey, followed by white urethane bed-liner from an aerosol can.

I like the rough surfaced bed-liner texture best, because glossy black often ends up looking like its soaked in old used engine oil!
Also that's why I use satin black inside the engine compartment.
That exact Rustoleum paint has given EXCELLENT results in the past for me, surface prep is key, followed by a low humidity cure cycle, heat a PLUS+.
I brush this stuff on most of my engine builds, it holds up great, applies well, the brush hair streaks "flatten-out" perfectly smooth, & looks like powder coat.

On moving the frame around"
I loaded the thing onto and off of the back of my 8' bed dually un-assisted, have you not found that the bare frame is SURPRISINGLY LIGHT?!?!?!
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M.ROSS



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PostSubject: Re: The Official 1987 Two Door Body Off RE-build Thread!    Thu Aug 16, 2012 2:37 pm

Machine de zine hit it right on the head .
Once the por 15 is cured it's rock hard and you need to scuff it to get a top coat to adhere properly.
Read the instructions .You have a certain time frame before the por15 cures and then needs to be scuffed
I used a roller on por15 and por15 top coat.
Get yourself a scrap peice of metal to experiment with to find the best procedure.
I'll see if i can get under my car and see exactly how my apps holding up.
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1984twodoor



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PostSubject: Re: The Official 1987 Two Door Body Off RE-build Thread!    Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:33 pm

Machine-De-Zine wrote:
This thread is giving me flashbacks.

Some observations/questions:
I see you have bad rust thinning at the body mount pads.
Are you still planning on repairing those locations with new 1.5" hole plates welded in?
Just say yes. - - But why are you painting the chassis first? - And, , ,
This is DEFINITELY the time to reinforce your "C"channels and fortify how they connect to the front & rear box sections.
There are a few other locations that would greatly benefit from some small strategically placed gussets welded in place.

Yes, and I'm going to reinforce the C-Channels and still fixing the body mount pads (that's a must) I wasn't painting past the upper A-arm mounts, this was sort of the test area.

Machine-De-Zine wrote:
On cleaning INSIDE the box sections:
Get a steel bristle chimney sweep brush on a slow torquey hand drill.
Douse the brush (and soak the inside of the box) with diesel oil, engine-brite, gas, MEK, or anything to cut the greasy oily mess, but please work safely!
I made a trough (a slanted "gutter" draining into a bucket) to catch all the spray and drippings to first re-use, and then to dispose of the nasty solvents.

Thank you as I will do this soon! elephant

Machine-De-Zine wrote:
On painting the frame.
Had my chassis professionally blasted by a firm that mostly does cement trucks and industrial tanks, best $125 I ever spent, maybe.
He thought he was doing me a favor by following up with spraying the entire frame.
He used some type of yellow chromate, red lead or phosphate "bridge primer" with out asking me.
My original plan was to use Por-15 directly on the bare steel frame, after doing all my welding.
Had to use a respirator to grind, sand and weld the frame due to the deadly poisonous lead component in the primer.

I will ask one of my bosses (landscaper) where he has his trucks done, if he's interested in the project he'll probably trailer it for me also.


Machine-De-Zine wrote:
Other points you may already know:
The properly cured surface of Por-15 is harder than the hinges of hell!
It is therefore no easy task to sand, although if it is not properly adhered to the chassis, it can be peeled off in sheets.
I found some coarse (80 grit) carborundum cloth-back sandpaper to prep the grey Por-15 surface for "rattle-can" urethane bed liner in black.
The whole under belly of the car was also sanded, degreased, Por-15ed in grey, followed by white urethane bed-liner from an aerosol can.

I like the rough surfaced bed-liner texture best, because glossy black often ends up looking like its soaked in old used engine oil!
Also that's why I use satin black inside the engine compartment.
That exact Rustoleum paint has given EXCELLENT results in the past for me, surface prep is key, followed by a low humidity cure cycle, heat a PLUS+.
I brush this stuff on most of my engine builds, it holds up great, applies well, the brush hair streaks "flatten-out" perfectly smooth, & looks like powder coat.

On moving the frame around"
I loaded the thing onto and off of the back of my 8' bed dually un-assisted, have you not found that the bare frame is SURPRISINGLY LIGHT?!?!?!

I had wanted to use that bedliner on the finished product, now that I know it comes in colors I'll use white on the car. The frame IS light haha! I've had to put it back on the jacks a few times... Also the rustoleum top coat must have suffered from the awful humidity when I was letting it cure. I supposed I should have waited to paint and for the POR to cure longer.

M.ROSS wrote:
Machine de zine hit it right on the head .
Once the por 15 is cured it's rock hard and you need to scuff it to get a top coat to adhere properly.
Read the instructions .You have a certain time frame before the por15 cures and then needs to be scuffed
I used a roller on por15 and por15 top coat.
Get yourself a scrap peice of metal to experiment with to find the best procedure.
I'll see if i can get under my car and see exactly how my apps holding up.

I'd like to see it if you can get a picture. I didn't scuff the POR before I topcoated either, I guess I skimmed past that while reading the prep information. silent The parts I've done with the POR in less humidity have help up well. They were not scuffed and top coated with rattle can Stops Rust Black Rustoleum.


Serious thinking cap time at work tonight scratch study
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