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 Modified '91 clone

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MASShole9C1



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PostSubject: Modified '91 clone    Mon Oct 25, 2010 6:48 pm

Take note of the tire size Razz

http://providence.craigslist.org/cto/2023661191.html


Last edited by MASShole9C1 on Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:07 am; edited 1 time in total
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1984twodoor



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PostSubject: Re: Modified '91 clone    Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:12 pm

He probably just didn't know the size, and he searched on firestone.com or something which size came on a caprice.
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Cadet57



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PostSubject: Re: Modified '91 clone    Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:25 pm

My question is who puts that kinda money into a 305 car?
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laidlow91



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PostSubject: Re: Modified '91 clone    Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:42 pm

Cadet57 wrote:
My question is who puts that kinda money into a 305 car?
yeah, what kind of person would dump a bunch of money into a 91 305 powered caprice? Shocked

on a side note there is a huge mod that would be worth mentioning if that is in fact a "91"
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Cadet57



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PostSubject: Re: Modified '91 clone    Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:44 pm

laidlow91 wrote:
Cadet57 wrote:
My question is who puts that kinda money into a 305 car?
yeah, what kind of person would dump a bunch of money into a 91 305 powered caprice? Shocked

on a side note there is a huge mod that would be worth mentioning if that is in fact a "91"

You know what I mean Wink

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GasTT



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PostSubject: Re: Modified '91 clone    Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:55 pm

There's a guy i know around here with a 91 caprice he made look like an impala. He cut the wheel wells out etc.. hes the guy I traded tail lights with and got my caprice alloys for free. Not sure if thats the same car I can't tell from those pics.
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MASShole9C1



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PostSubject: Re: Modified '91 clone    Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:08 am

Thread name change Shocked
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sdstick



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PostSubject: Re: Modified '91 clone    Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:49 am

laidlow91 wrote:

on a side note there is a huge mod that would be worth mentioning if that is in fact a "91"

What is it? I hate being so stupid about years & options. scratch

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GasTT



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PostSubject: Re: Modified '91 clone    Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:09 pm

Cut out wheel wells.
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sdstick



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PostSubject: Re: Modified '91 clone    Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:14 pm

Skirt removal?

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Steve


96BBB 28K 3.42 Bolt-ons
95BBB 100K 3.73 383 New DD...already broke fixt the 4L60E twice
95 Black WB4 Hole...ee...grail
96 Black WB4 No holes in this
95BBB 189K 3.08 Old DD Stolen...by Matt. Cool
Whine..eee...Silver LS6
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GasTT



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PostSubject: Re: Modified '91 clone    Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:20 pm

Yes
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sdstick



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PostSubject: Re: Modified '91 clone    Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:43 pm

OK, I get it thanks

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Steve


96BBB 28K 3.42 Bolt-ons
95BBB 100K 3.73 383 New DD...already broke fixt the 4L60E twice
95 Black WB4 Hole...ee...grail
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bammax



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PostSubject: Re: Modified '91 clone    Tue Oct 26, 2010 1:07 pm

Everyone loves to crap on the little engines. They are the same basic motor as the 350 version. And if it had the LO5 people would say why throw all that money into an LO5. Just enjoy the car for what it is. If you want big power then be preparred to spend big bucks. If you want a nice custom car save a ton of money and get one with the little engine Wink

I'd take Ants car with an LO3 over a basic old LT1 cappy any day of the week. I'd even pay more for the little engine car. Just ask some of them Regal guys what you can do with a really little motor Wink
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Cadet57



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PostSubject: Re: Modified '91 clone    Tue Oct 26, 2010 1:52 pm

bammax wrote:
Everyone loves to crap on the little engines. They are the same basic motor as the 350 version. And if it had the LO5 people would say why throw all that money into an LO5.

Why do you think I'm not throwing out any money on engine mods? Laughing
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bammax



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PostSubject: Re: Modified '91 clone    Tue Oct 26, 2010 2:12 pm

An LO5 is just a Gen1 small block 350. They can make tons of power. Sometimes more than the LT1 can even dream of Wink
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mean ss



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PostSubject: Re: Modified '91 clone    Tue Oct 26, 2010 2:17 pm

bammax wrote:
An LO5 is just a Gen1 small block 350. They can make tons of power. Sometimes more than the LT1 can even dream of Wink

LOL SMMFH drunken
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Matt Trakker



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PostSubject: Re: Modified '91 clone    Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:03 pm

Stop making fun of my 305! They're indestructible!
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GasTT



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PostSubject: Re: Modified '91 clone    Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:37 pm

The L05 is a nice little motor. It's good to push my Roadmaster along without feeling like too much of a slug. But that's about it. I think you went too far Brad. LOL Also, in your defense, I know that with enough money any motor can make big power. It's not always worth it.
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bammax



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PostSubject: Re: Modified '91 clone    Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:52 pm

You guys got it backwards. Anything available for the LT1 is more readily available and cheaper for the Gen1. The Gen2 is basically just a Gen1 with the opti, cam driven waterpump, vortec style heads, and multipoint fuel injection. Now look at how much you can upgrade it. People swap the opti out for the ls style system. Then they have about 3 cams to choose from unless they want a custom grind since the cam is specific to the motor. Other way around it is to swap in an electric water pump and then you can use a conventional cam. The heads end up getting ported or swapped for ported aluminum heads. Then the fuel injection gets played with through different pumps, and different regulators, not to mention those who run different injectors. Then there's the pcm tuning and sensor swaps. How exactly is that cheaper than just doing vortec heads along with an intake and carb on a Gen1?

Ask guys who make 600hp from an LT1 how much they spent on it and how much of the original engine is left Wink
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mean ss



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PostSubject: Re: Modified '91 clone    Tue Oct 26, 2010 4:00 pm

max compression for a GEN 1 is 10.5:1 on pump gas an LT1 can run up to 12:1 on pump gas FTMFW cheers
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GasTT



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PostSubject: Re: Modified '91 clone    Tue Oct 26, 2010 4:24 pm

bammax wrote:
You guys got it backwards. Anything available for the LT1 is more readily available and cheaper for the Gen1. The Gen2 is basically just a Gen1 with the opti, cam driven waterpump, vortec style heads, and multipoint fuel injection. Now look at how much you can upgrade it. People swap the opti out for the ls style system. Then they have about 3 cams to choose from unless they want a custom grind since the cam is specific to the motor. Other way around it is to swap in an electric water pump and then you can use a conventional cam. The heads end up getting ported or swapped for ported aluminum heads. Then the fuel injection gets played with through different pumps, and different regulators, not to mention those who run different injectors. Then there's the pcm tuning and sensor swaps. How exactly is that cheaper than just doing vortec heads along with an intake and carb on a Gen1?

Ask guys who make 600hp from an LT1 how much they spent on it and how much of the original engine is left Wink

So what you are saying Brad is that you can achieve 600hp from an L05 cheaper than an LT1?
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No Moa



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PostSubject: Re: Modified '91 clone    Tue Oct 26, 2010 4:27 pm

I think brads having an affair with those old motors. lol
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Cadet57



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PostSubject: Re: Modified '91 clone    Tue Oct 26, 2010 4:31 pm

GasTT wrote:

So what you are saying Brad is that you can achieve 600hp from an L05 cheaper than an LT1?

I knew my TBI was good for something! cheers
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bammax



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PostSubject: Re: Modified '91 clone    Tue Oct 26, 2010 6:54 pm

Sure can. Find me some people running that much power from a Gen2 and ask how much it cost to do it. Then argue with me. I'm currently running alot more torque than an LT1 can make, and it only cost me a grand. It's like the people that swear by the 4l60 and say that they can handle everything, and then mention that they're on the 3rd one. It's a matter of knowing what the good and bad parts are and being honest. An LT1 is great as a street motor and can make 300 horses and still get good mileage. That's a huge advantage over an old school build which can get good mileage or good power, but not generally both. If you want to make a real beast of a motor though you end up with major problems if you're starting with a Gen2.
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GasTT



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PostSubject: Re: Modified '91 clone    Tue Oct 26, 2010 7:48 pm

... major problems. elephant
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mean ss



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PostSubject: Re: Modified '91 clone    Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:20 pm

bammax wrote:
Sure can. Find me some people running that much power from a Gen2 and ask how much it cost to do it. Then argue with me. I'm currently running alot more torque than an LT1 can make, and it only cost me a grand. It's like the people that swear by the 4l60 and say that they can handle everything, and then mention that they're on the 3rd one. It's a matter of knowing what the good and bad parts are and being honest. An LT1 is great as a street motor and can make 300 horses and still get good mileage. That's a huge advantage over an old school build which can get good mileage or good power, but not generally both. If you want to make a real beast of a motor though you end up with major problems if you're starting with a Gen2.

LOL drunken
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phantom 309



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PostSubject: Re: Modified '91 clone    Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:41 pm

bammax wrote:
You guys got it backwards. Anything available for the LT1 is more readily available and cheaper for the Gen1. The Gen2 is basically just a Gen1 with the opti, cam driven waterpump, vortec style heads, and multipoint fuel injection. Now look at how much you can upgrade it. People swap the opti out for the ls style system. Then they have about 3 cams to choose from unless they want a custom grind since the cam is specific to the motor. Other way around it is to swap in an electric water pump and then you can use a conventional cam. The heads end up getting ported or swapped for ported aluminum heads. Then the fuel injection gets played with through different pumps, and different regulators, not to mention those who run different injectors. Then there's the pcm tuning and sensor swaps. How exactly is that cheaper than just doing vortec heads along with an intake and carb on a Gen1?

Ask guys who make 600hp from an LT1 how much they spent on it and how much of the original engine is left Wink

usually i,d wade in here with both barrels,. but this time i'll start off easy,..
question 1 ,. you say you have a gen1 engine now producing more torque than an lt1,
what is it? and what did you do?(you mentioned 1000 dollars,.)
question 2,. Other than what you've read on the internet,. just how much practical experience do you have actually owning and building gen1's,. or gen 2's?
sorry if i,m boring the rest of the group,. but i don't know your history, or your car other than it has a sticker of a football helmet on the side,.playing devils advocate, and being loyal to your own equipment is interesting,. but simple engine building physics are being ignored here,.
so please answer my questions so i might be able to proceed to my next post,.

Nick


OH, and Just a little parts list for you to have a peek at,.just a quick list of 1 speed shop selling some retail gen 2 cams,. 14 or so i think,.
63-07-304-8 Comp Cams "304" LT1 Camshaft, 210 / 220, .500 / .510 114 LSA, Mild cam, great for daily drivers or emissions sensitive applications. Will work with stock computer tuning.

63-07-305-8 Comp Cams "305" LT1 Camshaft, 220 / 230, .510 / .510 114 LSA, More aggressive with good street drivability and decent vacuum. Good midrange power.

63-07-305-8-112 Comp Cams "305" LT1 Camshaft, 220 / 230, .510 / .510 112 LSA, More aggressive with good street drivability and decent vacuum. Good midrange power.

63-07-306-8 Comp Cams "306" LT1 Camshaft, 230 / 244, .510 / .540 112 LSA, Very aggressive street/strip cam. Good top-end power. Heads, Headers, High Stall or M6, Gears, Computer Tuning Required.

63-07-502-8 Comp Cams "Extreme" LT1 Camshaft, 218 / 224, .495 / .502 112 LSA, Great street cam, Strong mid-range with good top-end power. Headers, Higher Stall or M6, Gears, Computer Tuning Required.

63-224/230-112 Comp Cams "Extreme" LT1 Camshaft, 224 / 230, .502 / .510 112 LSA, Strong mid-range with good top-end power. Heads, Headers, High Stall or M6, Gears, Computer Tuning Required.

63-230/236-112 Comp Cams "Extreme" LT1 Camshaft, 230 / 236, .510 / .520 112 LSA, Very aggressive street/strip cam. Heads, Headers, High Stall or M6, Gears, Computer Tuning Required

63-236/242-112 Comp Cams "Extreme" LT1 Camshaft, 236 / 242, .520 / .540 112 LSA, Very aggressive street/strip cam. Stroker engines, Heads, Headers, High Stall or M6, Gears, Computer Tuning Required.

63-218/230-114 Comp Cams "Extreme" LT1 Camshaft, 218 / 230, .495 / .510 114 LSA, Agressive camshaft for street/strip blower applications. Computer tuning required.

63-224/236-114 Comp Cams "Extreme" LT1 Camshaft, 224 / 236, .502 / .520 114 LSA, Very aggressive camshaft for street/strip blower applications. Heads, Exhaust, Stall or M6, Computer tuning required

63-07-465-8 Comp Cams XFI LT1 Camshaft, 210 / 218, .560 / .555 113 LSA, Good low end, with strong mid range power. Headers, exhaust, computer tuning recommended.

63-07-466-8 Comp Cams XFI LT1 Camshaft, 218 / 224, .570 / .565 113 LSA, Very Strong mid range powerband. Headers, exhaust, computer tuning recommended.

63-07-467-8 Comp Cams XFI LT1 Camshaft, 230 / 236, .576 / .570 113 LSA, Strong mid-range and top end power. Headers, exhaust, gears, converter, computer tuning recommended.

63-07-468-8 Comp Cams XFI LT1 Camshaft, 242 / 248, .584 / .579 113 LSA, Good midrange with excellent top end power. Headers, exhaust, gears, converter, computer tuning recommended.

most folks would like to move on from LT series engines to LS series, because most of us recognise they are even more efficient than the gen2's, and light years ahead of gen 1's,.
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bammax



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PostSubject: Re: Modified '91 clone    Wed Oct 27, 2010 12:05 am

Plenty of experience on cleaning up gen1's and gen2's. Right now I have a gen none since the good motors weren't in the chevies and they only lasted one generation before going out of production pre-1980 Wink I've now played with everything but the caddy motors. I guess that'll be next Laughing

I know that as much as people want to bash me for not being a team player, nobody yet as talked to guys or even found write-ups on gen2's making big power and how much it cost to do it. Gen3's make tons right from out of the box. Gen1's can with the right parts added. I've yet to see a gen2 make big power without a turbo or 2. Buy a gen2 block and see how much it'll cost to fully dress it with everything needed to make it a runner. You'll spend big money just getting the timing chain for it. Basically short of the fuel injection anything you can do to an LT1 you can also do to a gen1 except easier and for alot less money. Even that isn't too bad if you're open to tpi

Remember that the gen1 was in production from 1955 until 2003. The Gen 2 was only in fairly limited production from 1992-1997 and during that time the LT5 and LS1 were already being developed because the gen2 had no future. If you doubt it I can give you a direct quote from a GM head engineer and I'll even cite my source like a good english major Very Happy So them old motors must have been pretty good at something to survive so much longer thn the "replacement"

I don't deny the gen2 is a good engine. I just hate it deeply when people say to throw out a perfectly good lo5 and swap in an lt1 because it's a huge upgrade. I've never once been presented with any hard evidence that the gen2 is in any way a huge improvement. A nice intake and some vortec heads will bring the lo5 right up to par.

On a side note, it's too bad that crane went under. It was nice having a couple different places to shop from that both supplied quality parts Crying or Very sad
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boojum



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PostSubject: Re: Modified '91 clone    Wed Oct 27, 2010 2:03 am

Correct me if I have the wrong information.


1973 Pontiac Trans Am 455 weight 3,500 0-60 7.3 1/4 mi. 15.0
1996 Chevrolet Impala 350 weight 4,221 0-60 6.5 1/4 mi. 15.0

Granted this is for stock engines.

Ah the good old days. I whish we had today's tires back then.







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bammax



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PostSubject: Re: Modified '91 clone    Wed Oct 27, 2010 2:43 pm

boojum wrote:
Correct me if I have the wrong information.


1973 Pontiac Trans Am 455 weight 3,500 0-60 7.3 1/4 mi. 15.0
1996 Chevrolet Impala 350 weight 4,221 0-60 6.5 1/4 mi. 15.0

Granted this is for stock engines.

Ah the good old days. I whish we had today's tires back then.

Sounds about right. My boat is probably around 20 seconds in the quarter.
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phantom 309



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PostSubject: Re: Modified '91 clone    Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:50 pm

bammax wrote:
Plenty of experience on cleaning up gen1's and gen2's. Right now I have a gen none since the good motors weren't in the chevies and they only lasted one generation before going out of production pre-1980 Wink I've now played with everything but the caddy motors. I guess that'll be next Laughing

I know that as much as people want to bash me for not being a team player, nobody yet as talked to guys or even found write-ups on gen2's making big power and how much it cost to do it. Gen3's make tons right from out of the box. Gen1's can with the right parts added. I've yet to see a gen2 make big power without a turbo or 2. Buy a gen2 block and see how much it'll cost to fully dress it with everything needed to make it a runner. You'll spend big money just getting the timing chain for it. Basically short of the fuel injection anything you can do to an LT1 you can also do to a gen1 except easier and for alot less money. Even that isn't too bad if you're open to tpi

Remember that the gen1 was in production from 1955 until 2003. The Gen 2 was only in fairly limited production from 1992-1997 and during that time the LT5 and LS1 were already being developed because the gen2 had no future. If you doubt it I can give you a direct quote from a GM head engineer and I'll even cite my source like a good english major Very Happy So them old motors must have been pretty good at something to survive so much longer thn the "replacement"

I don't deny the gen2 is a good engine. I just hate it deeply when people say to throw out a perfectly good lo5 and swap in an lt1 because it's a huge upgrade. I've never once been presented with any hard evidence that the gen2 is in any way a huge improvement. A nice intake and some vortec heads will bring the lo5 right up to par.

On a side note, it's too bad that crane went under. It was nice having a couple different places to shop from that both supplied quality parts Crying or Very sad

Yes i do want the quote from the engineer,. and i,d like it in context.

cleaning up engines? are you referring to the outside?

how much is big power? 396 n/a lt1's regularly see over 700hp, and are driven on the street,.

manufacturers have to meet certain government restraints,. that is the main reason the 305 was added to the engine line up,. so that gm could meet its fuel economy targets,.

I,ve noticed here that your bafflegab is simply repetitive with no actual content,.
as i can plainly see,.you have no concept of the close relationship of a gen1 to gen2,.
you can run a gen2 engine carburated with a distributor if you so choose,.along with the gen 1 timing chain etc,.yes you'll need an electric w/p. but power wise there'll be more power made from the reverse cooled block that'll be able to run higher compression,.there are multiple very high flowing cylinder heads availble,.
Now i,m interested as to know if you have added vortec heads to a 305? or have you read about it?? I can't see how a 74cc for 4"+ bore cylinder head, could possibly work with a 3.76 bore engine with 22cc dished pistons,.

i will concede 1 point,.which the crux of your limited argument,is based on,.but how many of us spend our time building full out radical small blocks of any generation ?
yes a gen1 when radically built will be cheaper than a radically built gen2,.
but to be so blind, narrow minded and dogmatic in your arguments so as to ignore all the reasons why LT engines are so popular , and offer great streetability/driveabilty that the same gen1 carburated engines could never acheive,.
and to then to further add wide sweeping statements with absolutley no understanding of what your speaking of, is at the same time offensive and amusing,.in a forrest gump type of manner,.trumpeting the cause of older inferior technology, makes me question your level of understanding of engines, and makes me wonder if you are unable to grasp the concepts of the benefits of a reverse cooled engine, or possibly you are unable to afford a more direct relationship with an LT engine,.
I feel that pursuing this any further, in a technical manner would be akin to closing time arguments with an inebriated patron of some cheezy local bar, monotonous and frustrating.You really need to read up on bore and stroke characteristics of engines,.(any brand ,) and cylinder head technology,.
GM made a very healthy 302 cid engine, which is a totally different animal than the mongrel of a lame assed waste of cast iron that you so passionately defend without an iota of understanding as to why your statements are so ludicrous.
we,ve all read PHR,s old article about adding 150 hp to a 305,.(which gave thousands of 305 owners boners) which then makes it still not even equal to a stock LT1,.
so just like lipstick on a pig,.yada yada,.
Speak no more half truths, out of context, and quote no more cost benefit idea's with no merits,. until you are able to converse in a more technical manner, and have built a number of engines. (any brand)
Start by learning about static and dynamic compression ratios and their relationship to camshaft profiles,.
305 's have their place in this world,. to stop the boat from floating away,..

Nick


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bowtiepimp



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PostSubject: Re: Modified '91 clone    Wed Oct 27, 2010 11:42 pm

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

lol, i like this guy Arrow
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96Brougham



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PostSubject: Re: Modified '91 clone    Thu Oct 28, 2010 1:14 am

Lol Nick your too funny.. we all know Brad is, and until he feels good about his respone, going to be SCOURING the interwebs for info to prove you wrong LOL.. L05 and LO3 cars, in my mind, are good for one thing and one thing only,, winter beaters! (unless its an extreme modified, like Anthonys!)
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No Moa



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PostSubject: Re: Modified '91 clone    Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:57 am

My dad has a clone built 302dz motor. Turns 7400 rpm according to the po. Don't know the Hp but that sob is wild.
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bammax



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PostSubject: Re: Modified '91 clone    Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:43 pm

Hey Nick, you got things backwards. I'm the only one here that seams to realize that the gen1 and gen2 are almost the same thing. If you go back and check anything I've ever mentioned on the subject then you'd see where I'm coming from. I got torn to shreds for wanting to carb my L99. I'm the ONLY one here saying that you should NOT throw away a perfectly good gen1 just because it's not running the fancy gen2 parts. I even broke down the differences between the 2 engines and I think it was Bob that also mentioned the higher compression which I forgiot to throw in there. Thanks to the reverse flow cooling Wink So how exactly is the Gen2 so great that nothing else is good enough?

If someone can prove to me that the Gen2 is so superior that any and all gen1's should be thrown away as scrap then I'd love for you to do it. I've never seen a single valid reason for people to think that way yet they all keep saying it. It's like how everyone says that global warming exists yet there's not much evidence to support it. I can find plenty of evidence of how gen1's are cheaper and easier to build. I can find plenty of evidence of how easy it is to carb a gen2 and run it in a hotrod. I've never found any evidence that the gen2 made the gen1 obsolete. The gen1 was even still in production years after the gen2 was killed off since it was cheaper to build.

You guys need to actually pay attention to what I'm saying and stop trying to make the thing out as more than it is. Every engine has good points and bad points. I've never seen an engine that should just be thrown away just because it's not the right version. Scroll through all the arguements and all the threads and count the number of times someone says it's "just a 305/lo3/lo5" or the gen1 is "only good for" or some other demeaning thing. People even say the same thing about the L99 which is a gen2 scratch Gen1's were and are some of the most important engines in the history of the automotive world and some people need to learn that and stop treating it like it's a piece of junk. It sounds alot like people saying that a caprice is nothing more than scrap because it's not an Impala and we know how people around here feel about that line. It is the same arguement though Wink Just because the cool kids don't like it now everyone has to look down on it.

Just so nobody says I'm making things up

Gen-III feasibility studies began in the winter of 1991 and this is what they discovered. "According to GM Powertrain Assistant Cheif Engineer for the Gen-III, John Juriga, 'The Flint engine assembly plant (where the Gen-II engine was built) and its tooling had outlived its usefulness. An efficiency study showed us that it would be cheaper to open a new plant elsewhere than retool Flint. This opened the door to allow us to do something completely new. Our goals for performance and durability were clearly beyond the Gen-II's capabilities.'" *

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Cadet57



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PostSubject: Re: Modified '91 clone    Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:57 pm

I have to disagree with the sentiment that the L05 and L03 motors are "beater" motors or not worth their weight in scrap. I think the L05 is a solid engine. Sure it doesn't have the power of an LT1 but for my car, which is a daily driver, thats not that important, to me at least. Plus an L05 is much easier to work on. I like having an engine where I dont have to remove a water pump and drain coolant to change my rotor. Another anecdote, we have an 1996 LT1 Fleetwood with about 55k on it at work. That thing has had more engine work in the three years ive worked there than my L05 has had in 17 years and 127k. There is a reason they made the L05 as long as they had.
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96Brougham



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PostSubject: Re: Modified '91 clone    Thu Oct 28, 2010 6:08 pm

Cadet57 wrote:
My question is who puts that kinda money into a 305 car?

Cadet57 wrote:
I have to disagree with the sentiment that the L05 and L03 motors are "beater" motors or not worth their weight in scrap. I think the L05 is a solid engine. Sure it doesn't have the power of an LT1 but for my car, which is a daily driver, thats not that important, to me at least. Plus an L05 is much easier to work on. I like having an engine where I dont have to remove a water pump and drain coolant to change my rotor. Another anecdote, we have an 1996 LT1 Fleetwood with about 55k on it at work. That thing has had more engine work in the three years ive worked there than my L05 has had in 17 years and 127k. There is a reason they made the L05 as long as they had.

You started this whole thing, now your back pedaling, you have ZERO experience with LT1's, and close to no experience with TBI cars. this thread is retarded.
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GasTT



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PostSubject: Re: Modified '91 clone    Thu Oct 28, 2010 6:17 pm

C'mon Paul we all know the truth.....


L05>LT1 MUHAHAHAHAAHAHAA!!!!!!!!

P.S. somebody lock this toilet.
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laidlow91



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PostSubject: Re: Modified '91 clone    Thu Oct 28, 2010 6:29 pm

96Brougham wrote:
this thread is retarded.
that should be the name of this thread.
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Cadet57



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PostSubject: Re: Modified '91 clone    Thu Oct 28, 2010 6:35 pm

96Brougham wrote:


You started this whole thing, now your back pedaling, you have ZERO experience with LT1's, and close to no experience with TBI cars. this thread is retarded.

How am I back pedaling? There is no point to putting that much money, engine wise, into a 305. It is what it is. The only thing I plan to spend money on engine wise is maintenance, and MAYBE a rebuild just to clean it up and to have a "new" engine. And so what if ive had little experience with either? Ive been around cars long enough to know which engine id rather work on is all I'm saying. LT1 power is awesome, but it comes at a price.

laidlow91 wrote:
96Brougham wrote:
this thread is retarded.
that should be the name of this thread.

What was this thread about again? Laughing
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toomanytoyz
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PostSubject: Re: Modified '91 clone    Thu Oct 28, 2010 8:09 pm

Cadet57 wrote:
There is no point to putting that much money, engine wise, into a 305. It is what it is.

I happen to know of a street driven, fully loaded with stereo and subs and all, 305 TPI car that runs 9's... Just sayin'

~B (who didn't read this thread)














EDIT: Ok, so I just read most of it. Brad, I still think you're an idiot. Wink And I also think that you neglect to realize the amount of real engine/power/hot rod/basic car/automotive knowledge that more than a few guys here on this site possess. Most understand the very basic point you are striving so hard to tell everyone they don't know... EVERYBODY knows the Gen2 sbc is based on the Gen1 sbc, but bettered by more modern technology. And wow... How would we know that? What do you mean most of the parts interchange??? scratch

And numbah two... Nick, I miss you. You need to come around more often. Wink

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phantom 309



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PostSubject: Re: Modified '91 clone    Thu Oct 28, 2010 9:40 pm

well brad,. after reading a third empty diatribe from you,. i,ve come to realise that you dramatise statements, add your own words and assumptions,. quote them as spoken by others then argue against yourself,.you don't actually answer any pointed questions,. you did manage to find the google referal to the gen3 engine,.superceding the gen2.
I,ve never said an lt1 is the be all or end all of any motor discussion,.
I will state that putting money into a 305 borders on foolish,.the return on money invested has a poor return for horsepower,.its simply an exercise for boneheaded people determined to promote something simply to be different,.
Your lack of understanding rearding bore and stroke dimensions, is blatantly obvious,.
a 305 cubic inch capacity engine can be built with different combinations,
a .030 302DZ engine would in fact have 306 cubes,. a very potent engine,.
an L99 engine does a very good job for its size,.but again its limited by its bore size,
but a project i,wanted to do would have been be the l99 crank into the big bore lt1 block,. it,d be an over square engine, and would love to rev,with big heads,. be a fun autocross engine in something light like a miata,.but with the advent of the ls series motors, the 5.3 would now be a much better alternative,.
people that try to hotrod small bore long stroke engines generally are compensating for their small penis size,.
As for the argument that LO anything is easier to work on,. yes its true,. its a simpler engine,.and is less efficient,.a good platform to gain experience,.Tbi is not as efficient as MPFI, and more difficult to tune after modifying,,. yet there are guys still banging away at them,.(just to prove a point,.) as for better longevity over an lt1 , in my experience,.no,.how many Lo engines can run for over 100,000 miles with out a tuneup,. if the antifreeze PH levels are maintained and the antifreeze changed on a regular basis, in the lt1, the water pumps will last forever too,.there are cases all the time of folks buying 80-90,000 mi lt1's and then driving the hell out of them,.without touching them,.
it,s not about the size of a motor, its about the efficiency (power) a 32V 4.6(280 cid) ford is a mean "little" engine,.My wifes 4.6 99 lincoln cartier moves very well for a small engine and a big car,.
I drove carbs for the first 20 some years of my driving life,.i too was a nay sayer regarding the new fangled fuel injected computer controlled engines,. i was certain that i could out jet and out time any computer, until i needed a van, so i bought an 88 g20 with a 305, i was so impressed with the startability and driveabilty in all temperatures, i never looked back,.years later i got my first lt1,. i never looked back,. soon i hope to get my first 6.0 6l80e setup,. and i doubt i'll ever look back,.i hope i,m still young enough to enjoy what comes after the LS series engines,.
Horespower isn't cheap,. IF you can't afford to play,.or are intimidated by something thats too complicated for you, shut up, and stop putting down better and more efficient engines, that other folks recognise that are in fact cheaper to play with in the long run,. because the fun factor is waay higher,.
I,ve listened to so many younger guys with their tbi cars that they just love, pooh poohing lt1's etc,.defending their tbi's to the death,.
Then they get a cheap lt1,.
then you never hear from them again about tbi's,. some have the balls to admit they were wrong,. others just fade away,.
About the only thing missing here is some dinosaur bleating about the massive power and torque from the old big blocks,. they were grossly inefficient, i had lots and all different brands too,. I,d never have another for a daily driver or a toy,( 1 exception an aftermarket aluminum 528 hemi with mpfi) .not when you see just how much power can be had from a smaller lighter engine,.
sure go ahead now and start yapping about top fuelers etc,. blah blah,.


Again brad,. i will tell you,. stop spouting off about engines when you know so little, you are simply regurgitating well worn internet "facts" and you are annoying a lot of engine savvy people here on this forum,.
stick to cleaning up,.the outsides,.of gen1's

Nick
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boojum



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PostSubject: Re: Modified '91 clone    Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:44 pm

Nick brings up a good point I wanted to make earlier. Used LT1s are dirt cheap right now (little more than the cost of head gaskets). I'm sure with a little shopping you can pick up a whole parts car for around $500. If you want a stock engine you don't need to tune anything. I have done a LO3 LT1 swap and in my opinion it was good bang for the buck. I would do again today. Actually today it would be an even better deal since the engines are now even less expensive.

I've been told you can pick up a sub 100k mi. 5.3L engine, harness, and computer for $800 from a retailer. Add $200 for a tranny.

For me I just don't see the economical point in tearing into an older engine when the new stuff is not that expensive. If you want to build one up just for the hell of it more power to you.

Oh yeah, the LT1 swap now gets a couple miles more MPG than the LO3 did. If you have heard me say that TBI > sliced bread I wasn't being serious.

Now I just bought a TBI truck and have no plans to swap the engine but if it ever has any problems a SFI engine will go in unless I'm able to get an almost free TBI.



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