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 ac cheapens the pf52 oil filter

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waynes91



Posts : 221
Join date : 2009-03-05

PostSubject: ac cheapens the pf52 oil filter   Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:18 pm

posted from cletur284 on the 9c1 forum
This is for those of you with an LT1 powered car or 4x4 GM truck. AC Delco has introduced a "New" and "Improved" version of the PF52 oil filter. I knew something was wrong the moment it came out of the box. The cartridge is physically smaller and the top of the filter looks different. I got on the internet and here is what I have found, referencing http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilter...ence.html#delco :

QUOTE
2008 Version

A few years after this study was initially done, the PF2 model of the AC Delco filters seemed to disappear from the shelves of the stores nearby. Sometime around 2004-2005 when Champion Labs launched their new "Ecore" filter design, US-sold AC Delco filters became Champion Labs filters. It seems that AC Delco got out of the oil filter manufacturing business (at least in the US). Since it is now a Champ clone, keep an eye on who is making your AC Delco filter....

In 2004/2005, Champion Labs began production of their new "Ecore" filter design. It is quite different from their earlier design. Rather than steel, the cartridge uses some sort of fiber end caps that are thermally bonded to the filter element. It was quite easy to peel the end cap off of the filter element with my fingers and at least one example has some pleats that were not bonded at all on one side. The steel inner core tube has been replaced with a nylon frame, which seems fairly strong. The anti-drainback and bypass valves have been combined into a single valve that covers two sets of holes in the backplate. The bypass valve portion seems to use the pressure of the filter cartridge itself against valve to cover the inner set of holes in the backplate. This implies that the pressure exerted by the spring at the top of the filter is critical. The spring is still just a stamped steel leaf-type spring which may or may not provide accurate spring pressure. This also means that if the back of the can is dented, as was the case with the STP filter I purchased, the bypass pressure may be effected. The overall length of the "Ecore" filter is about 1 inch shorter than the previous design. Part of this is due to the elimination of the separate bypass valve, but the width of the media is also about 1/2 inch shorter on the "Ecore". It's unfortunate that they did not take advantage of the extra space to add additional filter surface. Instead they cut costs and shrunk the can.

Interestingly, two performance filter brands that are manufactured by Champion Labs still use the old design. They are Mobil 1 and K&N. Examples of each purchased in 2008 were not "Ecore" filters. It seems that any old stock should have been sold by now. This raises the possibility that the "Ecore" design, with it's fiber end caps and plastic core tube, are not suitable for high pressure/flow use.

The telltale signs for an "Ecore" Champion Labs filter are: 8 large holes in a smooth, thin backplate cover with the real backplate behind it. The real backplate has two sets of holes (difficult to see) with 6 small holes in the inner ring (bypass inlet) and 8 larger holes in the outer ring (filter inlet). The real backplate threads protrude through the backplate cover in the center. Through the center outlet hole, you can see the cone-shaped center of the leaf spring....

Champion Labs touts their new "Ecore" design as a major advancement in oil filter technology. In my humble opinion, they are a major advancement in cost savings for Champion. I have no data to back this up, but that's what fiber end caps and plastic core tubes say to me. I particularly don't like their "patent pending" bypass valve design, which depends on the stamped leaf spring at the back of the filter to regulate the bypass pressure. One unlucky dent in the back of the can knocks it out of whack, assuming it was correct to begin with.


It looks like, IMHO, up until recently, the AC Delco PF52 was a Champion Labs 'high performance' design. Now, suddenly the PF52E is showing up on the shelves at auto parts stores, which is a Champion Ecore design. Also, I noticed Wal-Mart was carrying some AC Delco filters again, and was going to buy some, until I opened the box and found them to be the PF52E filter, even though the box was marked simply PF52! Long story short, I'm now going to buy only Purolator or NAPA (Wix) filters for my vehicles. If you are going to continue with this filter, go ahead and buy Super Techs at Wal-Mart, they're virtually identical and cost less. They just lack the pretty blue paint. *sigh*
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bammax



Posts : 2301
Join date : 2009-02-22
Age : 34
Location : Mansfield, Ma

PostSubject: Re: ac cheapens the pf52 oil filter   Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:58 pm

I get so lost when people start explaining the differences between filters.

So the ecore design is plastic and fiber as opposed to steel? How does that make it worse?

I tried switching to an ACDelco filter because people said it elimintaes the problems associated with the "crappy" Fram filters. I never saw a difference from one to the next. I always used Fram on every car I worked on without ever having any problems. I'd say as long as the filter filters and doesn't leak then don't worry about it. Most of the people who are bashing the filters from one company or another need to start posting data regarding microns and such so we know if the filter has less filtration ability then another.
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bammax



Posts : 2301
Join date : 2009-02-22
Age : 34
Location : Mansfield, Ma

PostSubject: Re: ac cheapens the pf52 oil filter   Thu Dec 31, 2009 2:04 pm

Just so nobody thinks I'm being an *ss, I really would like someone to explain the differences in filters beyond just microns so that I get why certain filters are bad scratch

How are they different from the mechanics of a flow through filter like those used for air or fuel?
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Matt Trakker



Posts : 5065
Join date : 2009-07-30
Age : 35
Location : Reading, MA

PostSubject: Re: ac cheapens the pf52 oil filter   Thu Dec 31, 2009 4:43 pm

A few years back, the Super Tech black wal-mart filters were actually re-branded filters made by Champion Labs identical to the K&N/Mobil 1 filter. I don't know if that's still the case. When I got my yellow Impala, there were about 5 unused Super Tech filters in the trunk that I used up over time, they were the older "good" ones.

FWIW, the Wal Mart 10w30 oil on the east coast is produced by Mobil. I change my oil pretty frequently so it doesn't matter so much, but still pretty interesting...

http://msds.walmartstores.com/cache/339645.pdf
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waynes91



Posts : 221
Join date : 2009-03-05

PostSubject: Re: ac cheapens the pf52 oil filter   Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:14 pm

ok i check at my azone we had 5 pf52 on the shelf, noticed that 4 of the boxes were short and one alittle taller, open the 4 short boxes there were no E anywhere on filter but noticed that the top had 8 holes in it and real thin, now for the taller one, that was like a inch taller (compared to the other 4 )and had a rugged 6 hole inlet, this box had also a # 25171377 on the outside,there was a sticker on the filter that had a bar code and 3/4-1 turn picture info on it.. the other 4 boxes had a # 19210286 on the box, the sticker on the filter had only a 3/4 turn info on it and no bar code guess there saving on ink also, all boxes had pf52 and a duraguard logo on them
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PostSubject: Re: ac cheapens the pf52 oil filter   Thu Dec 31, 2009 11:21 pm

bammax wrote:
I get so lost when people start explaining the differences between filters.

So the ecore design is plastic and fiber as opposed to steel? How does that make it worse?

I tried switching to an ACDelco filter because people said it elimintaes the problems associated with the "crappy" Fram filters. I never saw a difference from one to the next. I always used Fram on every car I worked on without ever having any problems. I'd say as long as the filter filters and doesn't leak then don't worry about it. Most of the people who are bashing the filters from one company or another need to start posting data regarding microns and such so we know if the filter has less filtration ability then another.
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PostSubject: Re: ac cheapens the pf52 oil filter   Thu Dec 31, 2009 11:31 pm

bammax wrote:
I get so lost when people start explaining the differences between filters.

So the ecore design is plastic and fiber as opposed to steel? How does that make it worse?

I tried switching to an ACDelco filter because people said it elimintaes the problems associated with the "crappy" Fram filters. I never saw a difference from one to the next. I always used Fram on every car I worked on without ever having any problems. I'd say as long as the filter filters and doesn't leak then don't worry about it. Most of the people who are bashing the filters from one company or another need to start posting data regarding microns and such so we know if the filter has less filtration ability then another.
I have not seen these new filters. We just got a new box 12 today at work. I looked at them, and seen nothing out of place. They look like they have always.

I found that unless you buy the more expensive fram filters, you will not get the anti drainback that has been in every ac delco filter for as far back as I can remember. The anti drainback valve keeps oil up in the engine for initial startup lubercation. Without it, the oil just drains back into the pan and it takes longer to get lubercation. Which is not what you want during initial startup, as most wear accurs during cold startup.

As long as the new ac delco pf52 continues to work in the same manner as the old one, It should be fine to use.

Might want to stock up on the old filters as long as you can get them if the new ones are not as good about protecting your engine.
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bammax



Posts : 2301
Join date : 2009-02-22
Age : 34
Location : Mansfield, Ma

PostSubject: Re: ac cheapens the pf52 oil filter   Fri Jan 01, 2010 12:00 am

I always liked the Fram because they have the texture grip which makes putting them on and taking them off easier. Plus it's the only filter I've used that hasn't become frozen to the car. The car is due for an oil change so there's no word on how easy the delco filter will come off. I have a feeling it'll be a little more of a project than the fram because the filter wrench will have to dig in harder which will make the filter jam in the wrench.

Oh well, not my problem Wink

I'm still not sure how the metal tab thing in the bottom of the filter affects the oil though.
I could see how it would direct oil if the filter mounted down but the way the filter sits on a sbc I don't get how that thing does anything other than just sit submerged in oil scratch
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boojum



Posts : 2148
Join date : 2009-01-21
Age : 29
Location : NH

PostSubject: Re: ac cheapens the pf52 oil filter   Sun Jan 10, 2010 3:40 pm

Just got back from AutoZone. Boxes marked 25171377 and 1910286 both had the new style filter.

The Camaro filters (PF1218) were all the new style also.
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PostSubject: Re: ac cheapens the pf52 oil filter   Today at 10:10 pm

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